14th November Movement for Left Unity

[chilango]

...and on a more serious note.

Too many people involved in the left/activism are "wierdoes". People who seem to lack social skills. In the same boat as "Bible Bashers", trainspotters and so on. There'll never be a mass left org whilst this remains the case.

* that said, some of the loveliest people I've met are leftie activists who passed the "mates down the pub test" with flying colours.

 

[sihhi]

...and on a more serious note.

Too many people involved in the left/activism are "wierdoes". People who seem to lack social skills. In the same boat as "Bible Bashers", trainspotters and so on. There'll never be a mass left org whilst this remains the case.

* that said, some of the loveliest people I've met are leftie activists who passed the "mates down the pub test" with flying colours.

The more these apparent "weirdoes" don't engage with and hence fail to even hear people outside of their common targets (existing trade union members, university students and public sector high professionals) the worse this problem will become.

If people lack social skills outside these areas, exposure can only be positive, but yes, might not be applicable in all situations.

I agree that some of the hype for Left Unity seems crazy plus some belief that Cameron can be brought down like Thatcher was in 1990 - one their facebook page.

 

[The39thStep]

sorry dont know what this means, could you explain.



its pretty 'anarchist' (non-centralised) in that respect in that if you want to be the coordinator for the Nether-Wopping region the job is yours - I dont think there's much of a vetting process going on

I am using beyond The Fragments as an analogy for what is pretty much a project which is an alternative to the orthodox revolutionary left. However it was one that didn't take class analysis as its starting point but as one of many starting points along with racism, patriarchy and any other isms that appended to be around. It was based on loose alliances between the isms and between the orthodox revo left and the orthodox reformist left. Although BTF started as a project mainly outside the Labour Party many of its members found a perfect niche in the relative ideological autonomy of the soft Labour left in the 1980s whilst ironically being wedded to the dead hand of the Labour Party.

This will go the same way.

Btw I wouldn't confuse non centralised with 'anarchist' the EDL was non centralised and also based on social media.

 

[frogwoman]

...and on a more serious note.

Too many people involved in the left/activism are "wierdoes". People who seem to lack social skills. In the same boat as "Bible Bashers", trainspotters and so on. There'll never be a mass left org whilst this remains the case.

* that said, some of the loveliest people I've met are leftie activists who passed the "mates down the pub test" with flying colours.

I think lots of people lack or seem to lack social skills tbh (myself included, at times ) however surely the problem isnt whether someone lacks social skills or not but is prepared to learn them, or sees anything wrong with what they're doing.For example somebody who just goes on and on about the same bollocks (SOCIALISM!) etc without realising that the other person hasn't got a clue what they're on about.

i know i lack social skills some of the time coz i'm quite shy and i've got mental health problems and a lot of the time i worry too much about how i'm coming across so i don't tend to say a great deal, and when i do say stuff i think it often comes across as a bit awkward coz im not relaxed, i only tend to relax when i'm around groups of people i really like or, often, where alcohol is involved. so yeah i'm quite prepared to know that that criticism does apply to me, and to try and take it on board. I suppose the problem would be with somebody who's an annoying prick and doesn't even realise it or try and change it at all.

 

[frogwoman]

And I've got mates who aren't involved in left wing politics at all. It really depends whether you've got me on a good or bad day though as to whether i come across like a complete freak or not tho i suppose.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Although BTF started as a project mainly outside the Labour Party many of its members found a perfect niche in the relative ideological autonomy of the soft Labour left in the 1980s whilst ironically being wedded to the dead hand of the Labour Party.

This will go the same way.

The problem with this is that there isn't a Labour left any more to accommodate them.

 

[barney_pig]

The problem with this is that there isn't a Labour left any more to accommodate them.

And the revolutionary left is immensely weaker than it was in 1980

 

[J Ed]

I think lots of people lack or seem to lack social skills tbh (myself included, at times ) however surely the problem isnt whether someone lacks social skills or not but is prepared to learn them, or sees anything wrong with what they're doing.For example somebody who just goes on and on about the same bollocks (SOCIALISM!) etc without realising that the other person hasn't got a clue what they're on about.

i know i lack social skills some of the time coz i'm quite shy and i've got mental health problems and a lot of the time i worry too much about how i'm coming across so i don't tend to say a great deal, and when i do say stuff i think it often comes across as a bit awkward coz im not relaxed, i only tend to relax when i'm around groups of people i really like or, often, where alcohol is involved. so yeah i'm quite prepared to know that that criticism does apply to me, and to try and take it on board. I suppose the problem would be with somebody who's an annoying prick and doesn't even realise it or try and change it at all.

I think that the big problem is when some people on the left have both awful social skills and a complete lack of self-awareness, which is how you get people moralising and patronising people who couldn't care less over and over while people roll their eyes

I'm far from convinced that that is a real feature of the left any more than it is a feature of human beings in general now I think about it

 

[The39thStep]

The problem with this is that there isn't a Labour left any more to accommodate them.

They will accommodate to the Labour Party very quickly precisely because of ' the broad church' mentality. Most attracted to ' left unity' do do because they have more in common with other leftist s than they do with the working class.

 

[The39thStep]

I think that the big problem is when some people on the left have both awful social skills and a complete lack of self-awareness, which is how you get people moralising and patronising people who couldn't care less over and over while people roll their eyes

I'm far from convinced that that is a real feature of the left any more than it is a feature of human beings in general now I think about it

To be fair Pickmans has improved over the years either that or I have got more mellow

 

[ska invita]

Time for Anarchists to join the Party?
bristol | protests | feature Friday March 29, 2013 18:44 by Michele Di Piedi
http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/727168

Whatever your ideological opposition to the British political system, not using the tools that everyone else is using is a bit like trying to organise a demonstration without using 'corporate' social media. Self defeating.

I'm not saying that mass anarchists and insurrectionary anarchists should start standing for parliament. I am saying that we should vote, encourage others to vote, and join a party. In that party, our ideas will also be talked about, tested, amended and adopted by others in a mass working class movement. This alone should be reason enough for any anarchist serious about making revolutionary change.

A Left Unity party is already being set up. In London. By middle class intellectuals, defeated unions, and 'Old Left' political groups. And the Labour Party. At some point a Bristol branch will appear. It will be immediately dominated by old men from the Old Left who will expect the young bucks to do street theatre and get arrested at demos while they write the rules, impose the order, and make the same strategic mistakes they have been making for the last 40 years.

It doesn't have to be this way. Occupy, anti-fascism, direct actions, demonstrations, uprisings, football tournaments, bookfairs, bookshops, social centres, squats – pound for pound, per capita, Bristol anarchists have shown they have nothing to learn from London, or the Old Left, when it comes to organising in the interests of the 99%.

Libcom: Why we should reject Left Unity http://libcom.org/blog/“-real-enemy”-why-we-should-reject-left-unity-concept-17022013

Ian Bone: Why I support Left Unity http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/why-i-support-left-unity/

 

[chilango]

I think lots of people lack or seem to lack social skills tbh (myself included, at times ) however surely the problem isnt whether someone lacks social skills or not but is prepared to learn them, or sees anything wrong with what they're doing.For example somebody who just goes on and on about the same bollocks (SOCIALISM!) etc without realising that the other person hasn't got a clue what they're on about.

i know i lack social skills some of the time coz i'm quite shy and i've got mental health problems and a lot of the time i worry too much about how i'm coming across so i don't tend to say a great deal, and when i do say stuff i think it often comes across as a bit awkward coz im not relaxed, i only tend to relax when i'm around groups of people i really like or, often, where alcohol is involved. so yeah i'm quite prepared to know that that criticism does apply to me, and to try and take it on board. I suppose the problem would be with somebody who's an annoying prick and doesn't even realise it or try and change it at all.

Yeah.

I'm a miserable git irl. Misanthropic to the point of making LLETSA look like a Children's TV presenter! so I'm aware of the irony in branding others as lacking in social skills.

But if we are serious about building any kind of "movement", whether it's this "Left Unity" or something else we need to address it.

 

[steeplejack]

I think lots of people lack or seem to lack social skills tbh (myself included, at times ) however surely the problem isnt whether someone lacks social skills or not but is prepared to learn them, or sees anything wrong with what they're doing... the problem would be with somebody who's an annoying prick and doesn't even realise it or try and change it at all.

Yes, like the Socialist Alliance campaigner outside Tesco's in Cardiff around ten years ago, a crumbling shambles of a man dressed in clothes that seemed largely to be falling apart, glasses skwee-wiff, and Michael Foot hair. He was actively driving foil away by running about with a petition clipboard and shouting SIGNNNSSSSSSSSOCIASLLLLLLLLSTLAAAAAYYYBAENNAITCHESSCUUUUTTZZZZZ.

He came across as a total nutcase and people were crossing the street to avoid him. More worryingly, his SA colleagues either couldnt or didnt want to do anything about it.

 

[treelover]

Its the 'paranoia' that got to me in past

 

[frogwoman]

Its the 'paranoia' that got to me in past

what do you mean?

 

[ska invita]

But if we are serious about building any kind of "movement", whether it's this "Left Unity" or something else we need to address it.

How can it be addressed? Political movements are composed of the people that support them, and that's that. One of the reasons charasmatic leaders come to have so much importance is to distract from some of the less than charismatic characters in the background (springing to mind is the Tory party here, who are still a sight to behold at conference).

 

[treelover]

what do you mean?

a lot of people in radical politics have 'issues' imo, more than the general population(NOT INC URBS) one witnessed many aggressive outbursts and accusations of 'your're a spy, etc*

*in light of recent events, maybe with some justification...

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Yes, like the Socialist Alliance campaigner outside Tesco's in Cardiff around ten years ago, a crumbling shambles of a man dressed in clothes that seemed largely to be falling apart, glasses skwee-wiff, and Michael Foot hair. He was actively driving foil away by running about with a petition clipboard and shouting SIGNNNSSSSSSSSOCIASLLLLLLLLSTLAAAAAYYYBAENNAITCHESSCUUUUTTZZZZZ.

He came across as a total nutcase and people were crossing the street to avoid him. More worryingly, his SA colleagues either couldnt or didnt want to do anything about it.

Think we already established that was Neprimye

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

It doesn't have to be this way. Occupy, anti-fascism, direct actions, demonstrations, uprisings, football tournaments, bookfairs, bookshops, social centres, squats – pound for pound, per capita, Bristol anarchists have shown they have nothing to learn from London, or the Old Left, when it comes to organising in the interests of the 99%.

No but they obviously have a lot to learn full stop.

 

[frogwoman]

a lot of people in radical politics have 'issues' imo, more than the general population(NOT INC URBS) one witnessed many aggressive outbursts and accusations of 'your're a spy, etc*

in light of recent events, maybe with somen justification...

aye.

i think a lot of people have "issues" full stop though.

 

[ska invita]

No but they obviously have a lot to learn full stop.

just to say that wasnt me who said that - dont know why the quote has my name on it that was chilango i think

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Libcom: Why we should reject Left Unity http://libcom.org/blog/“-real-enemy”-why-we-should-reject-left-unity-concept-17022013

Probably the least mad thing on Libcom for ages, I disagree with a lot of its assumptions but the basic message is sound - left unity is a shit idea and the only right approach is "class unity" which is a completely different idea.

 

[redsquirrel]

I may just being an ignorant emigrant here but how does this group differ from the People's Assemblies stiff, UKuncut, etc?

I mean I'm somewhat confused that if your focus is Left Unity why you want to set up yet another grouplet.

 

[where to]

I may just being an ignorant emigrant here but how does this group differ from the People's Assemblies stiff, UKuncut, etc?

I mean I'm somewhat confused that if your focus is Left Unity why you want to set up yet another grouplet.

People's assembly is an attempt at a big tent, all inclusive left movement, including labour left, but NOT a political party.

Left unity is an attempt at a new left party with a slightly smaller tent which would sit outside and ultimately fight against Labour.

On your second question, well indeed. I imagine they would say that none of these have succeeded, and argue that this one will be different because it is not being led by a large existing organised grouping/ party.

 

[kenny g]

This could be highly amusing, especially if used as a means to put a bit of a kick into politics.

 

[chilango]

just to say that wasnt me who said that - dont know why the quote has my name on it that was chilango i think

Wasn't me.

 

[chilango]

Think we already established that was Neprimye

Nah.

He never had Michael Foot hair.

 

[treelover]

Sheffield now has a 'leader' mature student disabled(his def) wonder how the hard core SWP will respond?

lots of media/actors etc, Kate Henry, Birkenhead(Adrian Henry's daughter?), fair few declaring them socialists..

 

[ska invita]

Wasn't me.

sorry yeah it was from the bristol indymedia thing - very exhausted at the moment, can barely see straight!

 

[ska invita]

I may just being an ignorant emigrant here but how does this group differ from the People's Assemblies stiff, UKuncut, etc?

I mean I'm somewhat confused that if your focus is Left Unity why you want to set up yet another grouplet.

Although ian bones thing doesnt particularly make me want to join up (though im broadly supportive of it so far) it does explain what the lay of the land is - worth a read squirrel
http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/why-i-support-left-unity/