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14th November Movement for Left Unity

To expand on the part about the demographic above while horribly mixing some metaphors:

The plankton soup of ex-group member independents is getting smaller and older, slowly but surely, as the number of primary sources of sustenance goes down - ie the number of well organised groups with an ability to recruit and an orientation towards the general public rather than "the left". That negatively impacts on the parasitic groups, and in turn on the number of "independents".

There has been an infusion of new blood into that milieu in Britain, due to the SWP's disaster, but in the longer run the SWP's slow death will cut off one of the few remaining arteries. There has been a much smaller recent boost in Dublin from the WSM hitting the rocks and from a half dozen people leaving the SP, but not nearly enough to balance out the ageing of the milieu as a whole.

It's the combination of an ageing demographic with timeless repetition of naive formulas for unity based on soft lowest common denominator politics and cynical burn-out hostility to the existing groups that makes dealing with that milieu for a prologed period of time so depressing.

In Ireland, much of the hostility to the existing groups boils down to a desire for the SP (and also the SWP at a pinch) to build them a political home, providing the resources and infrastructure and the young activists but crucially not providing the politics. A refusal to build them that home is "sectarianism". Any group insisting on arguing its politics rather than soft left unity platitudes is "sectarianism", as while admissible in theory actually arguing your particular politics is in practice deemed unhelpful and dogmatic. Anything that enables a group to actually recruit in the first place is sectarianism. And of course pointing any of this out is particularly rabid sectarianism.

In Britain, Left Unity represents a decision not to wait around moaning, but it also ends up as the worst of all worlds, with the negative features of the existing groups and the ineffectuality and political softness of the plankton soup.
 
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[reposted from the SWP squabbles thread as it's more relevant here]

I was at a meeting in the Teachers Club in Dublin a few weeks ago, held by the Left Forum on the subject of the need for a united left party. I was at a meeting in the same venue five years ago, held by the Campaign for an Independent Left on the subject of the need for a united left party. I was at an Irish Socialist Alliance meeting in the same venue a dozen years ago on the need for a united left party.

12 years ago, I was in the youngest 20% of the audience. Five years ago I was in the youngest 20% of the audience. A few weeks ago I was in the youngest 20% of the audience.

This is a demographic of nice, well meaning, decent people who are, unfortunately, incapable of learning. It's also a demographic hostile to the existing groups (or at least endlessly patronising about their "sectarianism") yet both created by those groups and permanently stuck in their world. Even when they self-consciously try to get around the existing groups, they end up producing just another such group but with the added ineffectuality and political softness characteristic of the milieu - like Left Unity.

As with the SWP, I wonder how much the existence and participation of these people ensures that no new ways are found of organising and actually building a successful leftist party. As you say, they are doing the same thing over and over and their participation in anything new ensures that it will continue to be the same thing over and over with a few bells and whistles (like 'intersectionality' now) to make it seem new.
 
So there's just no hope for the left, it seems, beyond squabbling and making the same mistakes over and over. Anyone that tries to point out something becomes a lone voice in the wilderness it seems. I find this all incredibly depressing, actually.
 
So there's just no hope for the left, it seems, beyond squabbling and making the same mistakes over and over. Anyone that tries to point out something becomes a lone voice in the wilderness it seems. I find this all incredibly depressing, actually.

I don't think that's what other posters are saying, what they are saying is that new initiatives which are mostly identical to old initiatives are not likely to be successful which seems pretty self evident. Of course, people have different ideas on which new stuff should be tried and what should be discarded. In my view groups like Left Unity seem to be discarding a lot of what is good about some existing left-wing groups, like links with organised labour and recognising the importance of trade unions, and is mostly concerned with things that I find nauseating and alienating like endless debates over etiquette between tiny groups of activists.

Personally what I think would be pretty useful for a leftist group would be successful use of new media. There are some examples of really good use of new media on the left but I cannot think of any in Britain. Why is there no British equivalent of Democracy Now or Richard D Wolff's economic analysis? I think that if we had something like that, and it was linked to some sort of political grouping, then that could work quite well. But who has the time to make a regular video or podcast when they're still on the street selling fucking newspapers?
 
Hopkins is standing as an MP, seriously? , where is this?
It was during either the last local election or general election. Our local elections seem to be on the cusp of the general (this year should be the next). I think she gave up her dreams of being the next Mrs T after getting nowhere. She stood as an independent. I'm surprised Ukip hasn't snapped her up.
 
So there's just no hope for the left, it seems, beyond squabbling and making the same mistakes over and over. Anyone that tries to point out something becomes a lone voice in the wilderness it seems. I find this all incredibly depressing, actually.

Who's trying to point out what to who?
 
There's probably no hope for the current left, that doesn't mean there's no hope in general.

And as Nigel says organizations that try to orientate themselves to 'the left' / activist circles as opposed to the general public are basically doomed
 
So there's just no hope for the left, it seems, beyond squabbling and making the same mistakes over and over. Anyone that tries to point out something becomes a lone voice in the wilderness it seems. I find this all incredibly depressing, actually.

I don't think that there's no hope for the left. I just don't think that there's much hope for "unity" schemes, either of the cobble the groups together variety or of the ex-member plankton soup variety.
 
It was during either the last local election or general election. Our local elections seem to be on the cusp of the general (this year should be the next). I think she gave up her dreams of being the next Mrs T after getting nowhere. She stood as an independent. I'm surprised Ukip hasn't snapped her up.
No it wasn't, it was the 2009 european elections.
 
I think it is trying. But it's efforts are strongly shaped by sub cultural assumptions and, of course, the politics of the Rees/German outfit. There's a big gap between trying and succeeding.

That and watering down their demands/politics to accommodate labour councilors and the like (in Sheffield strikebreaking councilor and all round bad egg Jack Scott was uncritically put on the platform for their biggest meeting, with no speakers from the floor so no chance to criticise whatsoever, and audience members were denounced by the chair for daring to heckle him).

Theirs is another strategy aimed at uniting 'the left' - only difference is their definition of left is broadened to include the labour party.
 
What is wrong with their politics?

They are the current incarnation of the SWP at its most "movementist", which means a lot of emphasis on top table manouevering and grandstanding, watered down political demands, and uncritical alliances with left, labour and union worthies.

And while they do try to appeal to a wider audience, the way they go about it, based on a repetition of the StW formula without the same conditions, is still so strongly shaped by leftist subculture that they actually can only speak to quite a narrow section of society.
 
So there's just no hope for the left, it seems, beyond squabbling and making the same mistakes over and over. Anyone that tries to point out something becomes a lone voice in the wilderness it seems. I find this all incredibly depressing, actually.

Who gives a shit about the left?

There's whole wide world out there, with loads of people doing good stuff in their own way and thinking about how to make things better without identifying with the far left/anarchism etc.

Anything new will I would imagine emerge out of the intersection (lol) between them and the wider working class deciding that they do actually have the power to improve things for themselves.
 
They seem to be growing, and I get the impression a fair few(probably not the usual suspects) are waiting to see what happens next.
 
Who gives a shit about the left?

There's whole wide world out there, with loads of people doing good stuff in their own way and thinking about how to make things better without identifying with the far left/anarchism etc.

Anything new will I would imagine emerge out of the intersection (lol) between them and the wider working class deciding that they do actually have the power to improve things for themselves.


This
 
In brighton the trades council or whatever the fuck its called was completetly taken over by militant everybody else realised the whole thing was stiched up before hand so its now ignored by one and all.:hmm:
 
Merry Cross, a member of Disabled People against the Cuts and Reading Left Unity looks at the need for the left to support disabled people:


Left Unity supporters agreed to prioritise campaigning alongside disabled people who are being savaged by austerity measures at its national meeting in Birmingham in January. This is probably unprecedented in the history of political parties, let alone newly founded ones.
It has happened for a number of reasons: the genuine commitment of those at the heart of the party to including disabled people, which has involved real practical support and the unusually high level of involvement of disabled people as a result. It is also a recognition of the horrific attacks on the well-being of disabled people at the hands of this government.
But, why has it taken the left as a whole so long to recognise the necessity to do this? In the natural and correct overwhelming concern with the fate of working class people, has it been forgotten or not realised that disabled people are massively overrepresented amongst the working class?
http://leftunity.org/left-unitys-support-for-disabled-peoples-campaigns/



More on LU prioritising benefit issues and challenging the myths of 'Benefits Street. Though this is written from a 'disabled activist' view, not benefits as a whole.

btw,. the site now has plenty of interesting articles to read
 
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