Ironically, my response to this observation a few years ago now was to go for the pre-emptive ignore strike myself.Disagreeing with AuntiStella is a crime, and the penalty for those commiting the crime is to be put on ignore
Ironically, my response to this observation a few years ago now was to go for the pre-emptive ignore strike myself.Disagreeing with AuntiStella is a crime, and the penalty for those commiting the crime is to be put on ignore
Sex roles or just what's expected of us as men or women. As for that social response, the best I can offer is a hope that the debate moves in that direction.
yay!!Disagreeing with AuntiStella is a crime, and the penalty for those commiting the crime is to be put on ignore
Anyway, fuck this, I'm putting the whole thread on ignore
yay!!
No - the 'crime' is being a tedious arse and going out of your way to deliberately misinterpet or misunderstand.
And my attitude is - I really don't the energy to waste.
I've been taking people off ignore for this thread for the purposes of understanding the arguments being made - but being selective so i can respond to people that i consider to be making valid points and not just spouting incoherent rubbish.
andysays joins the incoherent pile.
No. Male sexuality isThat's a joke, no?
I'm not saying I have any answers, just that it seems undeniable to me that the culture and society have a role to play. What else?
trans people weren't excluded. They were invited. Most of us decided to stay away.
The gender recognition act is about transgender rights.
You seem to be implying that there are no trans women who are also radical feminists. Not true. You also seem to be implying that all radical feminists are TERFs. Not true.
Sure there's nothing to stop TERFs discussing this amongst themselves but this wasn't intended to be that - one of the speakers is a self identified transsexual and i know of at least two trans women who were asked to speak and declined.
But - without trans people present and included don't run away thinking that any kind of valid conclusion can be reached. Why exclude trans people from a discussion about trans unless you're trying to skew the discussion in some way? Explain.
the trans people I know are all involved in the struggle against murderous poverty. Also, the assumption that trans people are a) middle class and b) not affected by poverty is ridiculous and wrong
I read this today and thought it was bang on re gender nonsense: Let’s drop the gender stereotypes – we are all non-binary
I'm not sure what you mean re silencing - who is it silencing? can you elaborate?Well it is truism but the analysis is a very superficial IMO. It's like when people say things like 'we're all mixed anyway' when they really don't have a clue what it's like to grow up in a mixed ethncity/cultural family and develop a mixed ethnicity/cultural identity. Listening to world music and dating someone not from you ethnicity really isn't the same thing. These observations and attempts at unification might come from a positive, well meaning place but it's also dismissive and silencing of those people that actually do know what it's like and have a far more nuanced insight.
How can you have simultaneously been excluded AND chose to stay away?
I'm not sure what you mean re silencing - who is it silencing? can you elaborate?
Oh I see. I actually think it's two separate things: a) gender stereotypes which are shit for everyone and b) gender dysphoria which is shit but only affects quite a small number of people. I think this article is only addressing a).I mean as a natural consequence...If we are all mixed anyway, why would we care about listening to those who actually are and have an insight into what it's like living with, developing, inhabiting those idenities? The dismissing/silencing comes because there is no place for those voices if others claim they know all they is to know etc. even when their actual experience is superficial.
we weren't excluded from the meeting. But the meeting is about removing our rights and excluding us. Oh, come on, it's not that difficult is it?
we weren't excluded from the meeting. But the meeting is about removing our rights and excluding us. Oh, come on, it's not that difficult is it?
I liked it for this paragraphOh I see. I actually think it's two separate things: a) gender stereotypes which are shit for everyone and b) gender dysphoria which is shit but only affects quite a small number of people. I think this article is only addressing a).
Gender stereotypes are too often confused with biology, and you hear this mistake being made as much on the left as you do on the right. After all, it’s not that big a leap from saying boys wear car prints to Eddie Izzard saying he likes having manicures “because I’m trans”. Suggesting a man can’t possibly like having his nails done is a disappointingly reductive take on gender from Izzard, who was once so determined to tear down stereotypes about masculinity.
Oh I see. I actually think it's two separate things: a) gender stereotypes which are shit for everyone and b) gender dysphoria which is shit but only affects quite a small number of people. I think this article is only addressing a).
Well it is truism but the analysis is a very superficial IMO. It's like when people say things like 'we're all mixed anyway' when they really don't have a clue what it's like to grow up in a mixed ethncity/cultural family and develop a mixed ethnicity/cultural identity. Listening to world music and dating someone not from you ethnicity really isn't the same thing. These observations and attempts at unification might come from a positive, well meaning place but it's also dismissive and silencing of those people that actually do know what it's like and have a far more nuanced insight.
What gives you the right to instruct people how they should think?
Where have I done that?
but it's also dismissive and silencing of those people that actually do know what it's like and have a far more nuanced insight.
You are implying that you should be listened to.
...and? Why is my opinion not worthy of being listened to? Why would you be the one to choose whether it was or not? Also, if I knew more about something that someone else why wouldn't you care to listen to me?
So you are admitting that you feel you have a 'far more nuanced insight' on transgender issues?
Eh no, not at all. I was speaking generally about why I thought the author of that article clearly doesn't and her saying 'we're all non binary' is a bit shit really, however well meaning. I used a comparative example of people saying 'we're all mixed anyway', which is superficial bullshit too.