Drug addicts paid £200 to not have children.

[DJ Squelch]

This story seems similar to the story in the US where they pay crack addicts to be sterilized.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3508084.stm

Women drug addicts should be paid to take contraception to stop them having children, according to a drugs expert.
Professor Neil McKeganey, from the Centre for Drug Misuse Research, said there was a crisis in meeting the needs of children born to drug using mothers.

The professor has called for a system where women are paid to take long-term contraception to prevent pregnancies.

Professor McKeganey also suggested that drug addicts who were already parents could be given a year to kick the habit or face the prospect of having their children put up for adoption.

Scotland Against Drugs said it recognised there was a problem but said children in these situations must be supported.

It has called on more education and help for mothers and improved services for looking after their children.

Director Alistair Ramsey said: "I think it's a bit Draconian to suggest that contraception injections should be an option when it's not known in advance whether the recipient woman would be a good or a bad parent."

Catholic Church spokesman Peter Kearney said: "If you are going to sterilise drug-addicted women, why stop there? Why not sterilise alcoholics?

"This is social engineering on a massive scale and it's completely unacceptable."

 

[Pickman's model]

i find myself agreeing with someone from the catholic church!

 

[tobyjug]

This story seems similar to the story in the US where they pay crack addicts to be sterilized.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3508084.stm

Women drug addicts should be paid to take contraception to stop them having children, according to a drugs expert.
Professor Neil McKeganey, from the Centre for Drug Misuse Research, said there was a crisis in meeting the needs of children born to drug using mothers.

The professor has called for a system where women are paid to take long-term contraception to prevent pregnancies.

Professor McKeganey also suggested that drug addicts who were already parents could be given a year to kick the habit or face the prospect of having their children put up for adoption.

Scotland Against Drugs said it recognised there was a problem but said children in these situations must be supported.

It has called on more education and help for mothers and improved services for looking after their children.

Director Alistair Ramsey said: "I think it's a bit Draconian to suggest that contraception injections should be an option when it's not known in advance whether the recipient woman would be a good or a bad parent."

Catholic Church spokesman Peter Kearney said: "If you are going to sterilise drug-addicted women, why stop there? Why not sterilise alcoholics?

"This is social engineering on a massive scale and it's completely unacceptable."

Drug addicts children already can be taken into care.
Unfortunately it is yet another instance of people having a personal problem turning into people who are a problem to society as a whole because of the number of them.

 

[Pickman's model]

Drug addicts children already can be taken into care.
Unfortunately it is yet another instance of people having a personal problem turning into people who are a problem to society as a whole because of the number of them.

let me guess...

are there 450 of them?

 

[abstract1]

Unfortunately it is yet another instance of people having a personal problem turning into people who are a problem to society as a whole because of the number of them.

I've read that several times, and am trying desperately to find myself in the position of giving you the benefit of the doubt and ascribing your sentence structure to the fact that it's Saturday night or something equally obscure!

This is quite generous imo, given some of the other <insert word of choice> posts you have made on a variety of threads!

I'd be very grateful if you felt able to elucidate further on what it is you are actually trying to say.

Thank you.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd be very grateful if you felt able to elucidate further on what it is you are actually trying to say.

you may not be grateful once you see what he means.

 

[abstract1]

you may not be grateful once you see what he means.

Oh I dunno lol

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

Yeah, I lost the plot at TobyJugs post too, but the one thing that is certain, going by his previous posts in this forum, is that it wont be cheerfull.


xxx

 

[tobyjug]

let me guess...

are there 450 of them?

Ignoring the undeserved insult, it would not be a problem if there were only that few in number.
In some inner city areas, if memory serves, it is now 1 in 12 pregnancies.

 

[abstract1]

I'm still no clearer as to your point - would you mind trying again?

Thanks again - in advance

 

[Pickman's model]

there was a point? passed me by.

 

[abstract1]

there was a point?

I think he's sharpening his pencil *again*!

 

[Pickman's model]

I think he's sharpening his pencil *again*!

 

[tobyjug]

I'm still no clearer as to your point - would you mind trying again?

Thanks again - in advance

Given the increasing numbers of children of heroin addicted mothers being taken into care or dying due to neglect can you suggest an alternative solution to the one at the start of the thread.

 

[abstract1]

Given the increasing numbers of children of heroin addicted mothers being taken into care or dying due to neglect can you suggest an alternative solution to the one at the start of the thread.

Yes!

Can you?

Go on, stretch your imagination - might do you good!

 

[tobyjug]

Yes!

Can you?

Go on, stretch your imagination - might do you good!

Reluctantly I would have to support the proposed policy before it gets to the stage heroin addicts are strapped down on an operating table and sterilised whether they like it or not.

 

[Blagsta]

You really are a grade A cunt aren't you?

 

[tobyjug]

You really are a grade A cunt aren't you?

I am just being realistic.

 

[RubberBuccaneer]

Can't we just seperate 'poor parents' ( not just the mothers ) from people with addictions.
They're not necessarily the same thing, although of course they do overlap.
For me priorities to prevent pregnancies would be;
13,14,15,16 yr olds
women who've had other children taken into care ( where no change has been implemented e.g. abusive husbands )
Alcoholic mothers ( more difficult to treat than opiates )
Mothers who shack up with sex offenders.

Unfit mothers is such a subjective term, and depends on your own moral/way of looking at things.

Blagsta/Abstract other drug workers you must have seen pregnancy as a great motivator for addicted people to change?
None of the famillies we have are uncaring parents and the children are doing well.

 

[Blagsta]

I am just being realistic.

No you're not. You spout uninformed bigoted crap as if its gospel. Why don't you try and listen to the people on here who actually know what they're talking about? People who actually work with people with substance misuse problems? Instead of spouting some badly remembered misunderstood crap that you think you learnt on a training day somewhere.

 

[tobyjug]

No you're not. You spout uninformed bigoted crap as if its gospel. Why don't you try and listen to the people on here who actually know what they're talking about? People who actually work with people with substance misuse problems? Instead of spouting some badly remembered misunderstood crap that you think you learnt on a training day somewhere.

I have to keep writing this, do not make assumptions, (for your information I have been helping people with addictions including looking after some of them in my own home for over 25 years on and off).
The only reason I went on a drugs counselling course , (which was a tad longer than one day, it was couple of weeks over 6 months), was to get some formal training because I had some problems dropped on me by a woman when she was in a terrible state that was well outside of my life experience to handle.
Thus far this government has taken zero notice of formal orgaisations who work with people with addictions.
If the government did take any notice they would stop the use of methadone and let GPs with the relevant training prescribe heroin.
With 60% of heroin addicted mothers, and 80% of heroin addicted neglecting their children, (Quoted in the report referenced at the start of this thread) something has to be done due to the numbers involved.

 

[Blagsta]

I have to keep writing this, do not make assumptions, (for your information I have been helping people with addictions including looking after some of them in my own home for over 25 years on and off).

Well stop talking shit then.

The only reason I went on a drugs counselling course , (which was a tad longer than one day, it was couple of weeks over 6 months)

It didn't teach you much.

If the government did take any notice they would stop the use of methadone and let GPs with the relevant training prescribe heroin.

I agree with this though.

 

[Chuff]

Reluctantly I would have to support the proposed policy before it gets to the stage heroin addicts are strapped down on an operating table and sterilised whether they like it or not.

really can't wait for this, what sort of a world do you live in where you believe any sociaety would allow this again?

You say you have worked with drug users for 25 years yet you have failed to notice they are individual HUMANBEINGS your outlook is so damaged I worry about anyone who gets you as a worker.

 

[pk]

Smack addicts, no.

Not even crack addicts, though I know of none that would be able to maintain a parental relationship.

I've known many parents who used smack and survived it, kicking it before having kids.

Paedophiles should be sterilised though, preferably castrated, by voluntary means or sedated with force.

But sterilising people with a drug problem??

Prescription drugs, too?

Daft idea.

Take their kids into care if at risk, of course, might even spur the parents to give up their filthy habit.

 

[white rabbit]

They can pay me not to have kids if they like.

 

[tobyjug]

really can't wait for this, what sort of a world do you live in where you believe any sociaety would allow this again?

You say you have worked with drug users for 25 years yet you have failed to notice they are individual HUMANBEINGS your outlook is so damaged I worry about anyone who gets you as a worker. :
(

Worked with is the wrong word to use. I never turn away anyone who comes to me with a problem. Many people will not use "official" help agencies or charities. In any case officialdom and charities can only give people a 10 minute appointment.
They can as a last resort move in with me and my wife, (a nurse) and have a home for as long as it takes, or assistance for as long as it takes.
It took nearly 10 years on and off, in the case of one young couple with serious problems. Now they are well settled in reasonable council housing, both working, and have two bright healthy children.
I am fully aware of people being human beings, I don't think that the current government does though.
In case you have not noticed we have nearly the most right wing government in the history of Britain at the moment. It would not suprise me one little bit ANY drastic action they will take for a wide range of social problems given time. Paying heroin addicts not to have children is far more preferable (if distasteful) than the likely alternative if Gruppenfuhrer Blunkett gets in for another term in office, come the next general election.

 

[nosos]

Oi! Toby! You've still not answered my questions yet, luv!

 

[Blagsta]

Oi! Toby! You've still not answered my questions yet, luv!

He has a habit of avoiding direct questions. Possibly 'cos he knows he's full of shit.

 

[tobyjug]

He has a habit of avoiding direct questions. Possibly 'cos he knows he's full of shit.

At least I am not smoking it.
and what direct question?

 

[cbwc]

You're smoking something, no doubt about it