Drug addicts paid £200 to not have children.

[gosub]

To be fair, will I don't know that many, the kids of smack and crack heads I do know have grown up as very sound individuals. My own parents were both alcoholics, was very unpleasent at times.

That it is voluntary, and in most cases non permanent I don't have a problem with waht she is doing. The critisim that she is "picking" on people at their lowest ebb is an odd one, if you are prepared to do consider doing this for £200 towards your drug habit you'dd probably be whoring yourself in unprotected sex for a lot less....

 

[cynet]

I would be more than glad to give junkies a £200 gift to be steralised as they are not fit to clean the shit off my shoe, leave them to bring up kids, dont bear thinking about.

 

[killer b]

Wanker.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

Thankfully most of the 'Drug Agencies' Im in contact with are well pissed off with this... hopefully we can chase them out of town?
btw: they offer £50 to people who refer vulnerable people to them....

 

[i'mnotsofast]

Why I took £200 to be sterilised: The Mail identifies the first British drug addict to take a controversial charity's money to have a vasectomy

 

[detective-boy]

a bit like deciding to have a child then.

The welfare (and Rights) of the children / potential children should be the primary concern here. They have no say whatsoever in the circumstances in which they will be born / brought up whereas the parents DO have a say in the situation and they CAN (if they wish) make different decisions. And yet the welfare (and Rights) of the children / potential children seem to be entirely ignored by those who cannot wait to jump up and down about the Rights of the parents ...

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

The welfare (and Rights) of the children / potential children should be the primary concern here. They have no say whatsoever in the circumstances in which they will be born / brought up whereas the parents DO have a say in the situation and they CAN (if they wish) make different decisions. And yet the welfare (and Rights) of the children / potential children seem to be entirely ignored by those who cannot wait to jump up and down about the Rights of the parents ...

You're so right.

I mean look at all those disabled people that spawn kids willy nilly, never thinking that their kids are going to get laughed at in the playground for having a mum in a wheelchair or that talks using their hands, those lesbians that have kids without giving their children a father figure, and dont get me started on the single mothers. My nephew was born of a ginge. He is scarred for life now as the government sees fit to let ginges procreate - yes he can dye it, shave it even, but ultimately he's marked. Compulsory sterilisation would have sorted this right out.

WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

 

[ymu]

This again?

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/70448-Drug-addicts-paid-to-not-have-children.
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/325380-Cash-for-sterilisations-in-Glasgow

You're doing this all over the place. Kindly stop it.

You've just caused a current thread to be merged with two threads that are years old. Posting the links to the older threads for context is fine, but there is no need to bump them instead of starting a new thread for a new story.

I'm reliant on 3G for internet and pay by the GB. I don't want to have to plough through loads of irrelevant pages to work out why the fuck an ancient thread has been resurrected.

 

[_angel_]

Children can't have rights if they don't exist.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I would be more than glad to give junkies a £200 gift to be steralised as they are not fit to clean the shit off my shoe, leave them to bring up kids, dont bear thinking about.

In your case, you don't have the equipment to think about it.

 

[trevhagl]

the way i read the article in the Metro about this is that loons were paying £200 to have poor fuckers sterilised because they're druggies? Well what happens if these druggies ditch the drugs and turn into good citizens?

 

[detective-boy]

You're so right. < snip ludicrous fuckwittery >

So you entirely disregard any Rights or interests of the children then, yes?

You believe that parents have an absolute right to have children if they feel like it, absolutely regardless of the situation into which the child will be born and absolutely regardless of their ability to provide a reasonable standard of care for it?

 

[i_got_poison]

So you entirely disregard any Rights or interests of the children then, yes?

You believe that parents have an absolute right to have children if they feel like it, absolutely regardless of the situation into which the child will be born and absolutely regardless of their ability to provide a reasonable standard of care for it?

this post sums it up for me.
please note, that even if qwerty does respond to your post, he\she won't address the central issue of parental responsibility.

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

You believe that parents have an absolute right to have children

Yes, people have an absolute right to bear children (although not necessarily to bring them up).

regardless of the situation into which the child will be born and absolutely regardless of their ability to provide a reasonable standard of care for it?

Getting into dangerous territory here. Sterilise everyone living in a warzone? On a flood plain? In polluted areas? Living with HIV? With genetic disabilities? The majority of the worlds children are born to parents who are unable to provide a "reasonable standard of care" (adequate food, clean water, adequate sanitation, access to medical supplies, access to education and access to information). Thats an awful lot of sterilisations required and around 1bn children that by your standards should never have been born.

 

[detective-boy]

Yes, people have an absolute right to bear children (although not necessarily to bring them up).

I'm afraid I cannot agree with that. When we make choices about bringing someone else into the world we must have some responsibility for considering their Rights and interests. And we have personal responsibility for bringing them up, we can't just shrug and go "Well, I can't be arsed but someone else will do it / pay for it".

Getting into dangerous territory here. Sterilise everyone living in a warzone?

I'm not talking about sterilisation, am I? I'm talking about taking personal responsibility for bringing a child into the world.

Clearly taking personal responsibility for anything is an anathema to you ...

around 1bn children that by your standards should never have been born.

I would far, far rather we had a world in which children were not born rather than being born, suffering and dying without ever having any quality of life whatsoever.

 

[Pickman's model]

^ i can think of one pair of people who should have thought twice, then thought again, before embarking on getting a family together.

 

[mentalchik]

So you entirely disregard any Rights or interests of the children then, yes?

You believe that parents have an absolute right to have children if they feel like it, absolutely regardless of the situation into which the child will be born and absolutely regardless of their ability to provide a reasonable standard of care for it?

It's all very well and good to go on about people taking responsibility and that they should have the means and ability to care for the child but you propose no solutions to get to that point........and what about people that get pregnant by mistake ? a huge no of children are not planned and a huge no of children worldwide get born because their mothers have no choice in the matter........

I'm not talking about sterilisation, am I? I'm talking about taking personal responsibility for bringing a child into the world.

Clearly taking personal responsibility for anything is an anathema to you ...

So how do you propose to deal with those that take no 'responsibilty' ?

also people's circumstances can change quite dramatically....

who is to decide what is and isn't the correct circumstances ? who are to be the judges of what is the proper way to bring up a child....it certainly isn't just about finances......

 

[ymu]

Well, obviously the nice middle-class responsible people should take over the decision-making. Permanently.

 

[mentalchik]

Well, obviously the nice middle-class responsible people should take over the decision-making. Permanently.

Well obviously ymu because of course nice, reasonably well off well educated people never produce unhappy, abused or fucked up children.......


oh but they generally aren't a 'burden' on the state so of course it doesn't matter.......

 

[detective-boy]

... but you propose no solutions to get to that point...

That's because I don't have one. Nor, I suspect, does anyone else. I am simply suggesting something which should be an underlying principle that we espouse and try to work from. What makes you think that some random idiot on the internet will have the answer to the world's ills?

 

[detective-boy]

Well obviously ymu because of course nice, reasonably well off well educated people never produce unhappy, abused or fucked up children.......

Perhaps if you didn't try and turn everything into some sort of pathetic Class War we'd get somewhere ...

 

[mentalchik]

That's because I don't have one. Nor, I suspect, does anyone else. I am simply suggesting something which should be an underlying principle that we espouse and try to work from. What makes you think that some random idiot on the internet will have the answer to the world's ills?

what makes you think that the vast majority of people don't already have that underlying principle ?

 

[mentalchik]

Perhaps if you didn't try and turn everything into some sort of pathetic Class War we'd get somewhere ...

So i turn everything into a class war ??????

And we have personal responsibility for bringing them up, we can't just shrug and go "Well, I can't be arsed but someone else will do it / pay for it"

sounds like a social class implication there if i'm not mistaken so get off your high horse

 

[8ball]

Do I get £200 as a one-off payment for not breeding or is it something like £200 per year?

If I'm addicted to more than one drug do I get more cash?

 

[_angel_]

I'm afraid I cannot agree with that. When we make choices about bringing someone else into the world we must have some responsibility for considering their Rights and interests. And we have personal responsibility for bringing them up, we can't just shrug and go "Well, I can't be arsed but someone else will do it / pay for it".


I'm not talking about sterilisation, am I? I'm talking about taking personal responsibility for bringing a child into the world.

Clearly taking personal responsibility for anything is an anathema to you ...


I would far, far rather we had a world in which children were not born rather than being born, suffering and dying without ever having any quality of life whatsoever.

The child has a right to be born, if it needs to be taken into care, then we should do that, not whine about how much it costs 'the taxpayer'. My exes sister would never have had her kid if this horrible woman had had her way, she was on heroin but got off it when she was pregnant.

 

[butchersapron]

We must stop the child being born for the sake of the child is not much of an argument really is it?

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

We must stop the child being born for the sake of the child is not much of an argument really is it?

Children can't have rights if they don't exist.

I guess this is the way round the whole tricky "human rights" issue that people keep insisting on.

Children have rights once they are born, those rights might not be fulfilled if they are born to the wrong people, ergo sterilise those "wrong people", stop them being born then you dont have to give them any rights.

Simples.

 

[likesfish]

As much as this organisation is full of loony tunes with rather nasty associations.

Unfortunatly could see a use for them. Had a client nice enough person but deeply deeply fucked up probably completely broken.
history of abuse massive drug problems and mental health issues 5 children being adopted or already adopted pregnant again partner not allowed near children etc.
The child if it survived alcohol and street drugs etc not very good for pregancy would be taken away at birth

 

[Hoxtontwat]

The area where this woman operates: Possil Park, is completely fucked.
Something like 90% working age unemployment, many many registered heroin addicts, to the extent where addiction is completely normalised.

My partner used to live there: you walk down Saracen Street on a weekday afternoon and about 40% of people you pass are visably off their heads. 1 in 10 children are apparently on the child protection register. Bleak is not the word.

This has happened for a reason and that reason is the complete decimation of industry and jobs in the area and the growth of an economy built almost entirely on crime.
If you look at the legitimate economy, theres the public sector, then there's "property development" for which read "money laundering." When the largest portion of the private sector is an adjunct to crime then your in trouble: everything is connected with drugs up there: from the icecream vans, to the pubs, clubs and theatres, to the council.

The Scottish Socialist Party did a stall in the area there and everyone assumed they were selling drugs: because, after all what else would anyone be doing?

In the context, individual personal choice is not the lens to be approaching the issue. What Possil Park needs is a ship yard and two to three generations to let the crushing social problems gradually work themselves through. Someone in authority tackling the crime families that dominate Glasgow communities rather than justy doing bussiness with them wouldn't go amiss either. Untill then social programmes of whatever kind can only do so much.

 

[detective-boy]

The child has a right to be born, if it needs to be taken into care, then we should do that, not whine about how much it costs 'the taxpayer'.

My concern isn't primarily the cost to the taxpayer. It is the harm that the child suffers when they are born into a situation where they cannot be adequately cared for by their parents. EVERY person I know who has been brought up in care (with the exception of those who managed to get placed with foster / adoptive parents at a very early age and were then lucky enough to remain with them without disruption) would say that the experience harmed them to some extent (in some cases to a very great extent!).

It is fuckwitted to suggest that a child has a right to be born ... only to then suffer and perhaps die.

I am amazed at how many people entirely deny that there needs to be any consideration of the Rights of the unborn child to a reasonable standard of care when born and that they must just take whatever is coming to them because it is the parents absolute right to procreate regardless.