Well if one believes the Telegraph, then we already have open borders and the campaigners can go home. If this is true, this is also one of the biggest changes to the U.K since the 1940's or perhaps the 19th C. Whether this is good or bad, its implications are massive and the wider public have had no say on it, surely that is wrong
I million workers come to UK: defacto open borders?
- Thread starter treelover
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ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
chilango said:
What I find interesting is the language used by the Telegraph journalists, for example their use of "given the right to remain" instead of the correct formulation of "given leave to remain", the journalists in effect implying that these "foreigners" have no checks and balances on their presence.
Of course, what's even more interesting is their leaving it until the penultimate paragraph to mention that these non-EU immigrants are here on work permits, which may allow you to apply for leave to remain, but aren't in any way a guarantee that you'll get it.
A very obvious case of spinning, I do believe.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
treelover said:
I know.
I was just making the point in plain language in case mr baldwin reads the thread and starts one of his rants.
I read the original article on sunday. it was some kind of a rant about uncontrolled immigration to frighten old ladies and retired colonels in somerset.
treelover said:
are you worried about the figures?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
treelover said:
Dismissing? Nowt.
Critiqueing? The numbers and the tone.
They've conflated non-EU workers who've been awarded work permits with EU citizens who are entitled, due to their membership of the EU, to work here without a work permit, with the implication (the reference to "right to remain") that every last one of them will choose to settle in Britain, that well-known paradise.
They've spun the data in every way that it's possible to do so to make a "story" out of it that is acceptable to their readership. Not big and not clever.
the tone is to be expected from the torygraph. it just makes me laugh, to be honest. but the idea that every young EU citizen who come down here for a year or so to learn/improve english is an immigrant is totally dishonest. and they haven't counted all the english immigrants to the Dordogne and other sunny french places, or the South of Spain.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
Or to the Middle East...guinnessdrinker said:
I'm leeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaving
On a jet plane
Don't know when
I'll be back again
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Yes, the BBC website piece about brits abroad recently was very revealing - there are around 5 million British people living abroad I seem to remember. Of course they should be *allowed* to move around because...they're British so of course they can do what they want. Whereas anyone who turns up here to work is a threat to our economy, our culture and presumably our women.guinnessdrinker said:
becky p said:
why the roll eyes?
AnnO'Neemus said:
you mean the british illegrant emigrants currently in Irak?
biff curtains
Fred West or Fred Housego
Isnt there something like 5 million immigrants living here (including EU and even Irish) and % million Brits living abroad?
Situation neutral.
Situation neutral.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Since WW2, more people have left the Uk than entered it.
I am not having a go at anybody here, but this is a fact that is too little knwon.
Of those that object to their Nigerian neighbour, how many object to their Australian cousin?
I am not having a go at anybody here, but this is a fact that is too little knwon.
Of those that object to their Nigerian neighbour, how many object to their Australian cousin?
with giles comment , we see that many leftwingers who support unregulated mass migration/open borders have strange right wing bedfellows and of course the CBI!
btw, have to say, its so funny, (not ha ha though) watching how the racism witchhunters are always examining comments, trying to tease out if the poster is a racist...
btw, have to say, its so funny, (not ha ha though) watching how the racism witchhunters are always examining comments, trying to tease out if the poster is a racist...
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
becky p said:
Any chance of you actually letting people know why you're rolling your gnomic little eyes?
Thought not.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
guinnessdrinker said:
Check out her post history. The
is kind of a motif. I suspect it substitutes for having to think for herself. A bit like Balders' cry of "LIBERAL SUPREMACIST".
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
biff curtains said:
Neutral situations don't sell papers to people who're more than happy to believe any immigration-related bit of gloom or despair that the Torygraph puts their way.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
treelover said:
Of course, if you're being honest (which you usually are on this subject, unlike some), then you'll acknowledge that most "leftwing" views are quite a bit more nuanced than what you're stating, and usually (unless you're some species of misbegotten Trot) run somewhere along the lines of "Open Borders is a nice dream but it's impractical, so I'm in favour of some degree of control". It isn't as if this particular point hasn't been made time after time on Balders' interminable immigration threads, but you, he and Durruti seem to keep harking back to your simplistic and inaccurate argument regardless.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Fruitloop said:
I don't believe that the rightwing view on immigration is quite as nuanced as the left.
Any sensible soft rightist should, of course, be disgusted at what happens in the "detention centres" (which are nothing like the detention centres that existed in the 1970s and 80s for juvenile criminals, they're far worse than that), as it doesn't particularly accord with ideas of "fair play".
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
treelover said:
Back when I worked at the Home Office (early 90s) and the idea of such places was first mooted (under Michael Howard, naturally), it was taken almost as a given by the POA (Prison Officers Association) that they'd be introduced as part of the privatisation regime, so that any complaints by inmates would be harder to sustain and easier to "manage" (prisons complaints may grind exceeding slow, but they also grind exceeding fine).
We probably hear about 10% maximum of the worst complaints against the most egregious infractions of individual rights, and the Home Office are, IMO, complicit because of the laissez faire attitude they've historically taken to the management and administration of private sector penal establishments and detention facilities.
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