"Young professionals" to infest flats above Iceland

[tarannau]

2) I maintain that these places are completely out of the reach of the vast majority of single young people, based on local prices for similar properties (not 60s council block conversions). But yes, young people are getting squeezed out, along with everyone else on anything other than a far above average income.

Isn't that true of nearly every property in London and the surrounding area now though? Unless there are plenty of <£100k properties around that I've failed to notice, most single young people will never get onto the housing ladder themselves without assistance of some sort.

It's marginally easier to get on the ladder with a partner or friends, but the days of a single person on low-average income buying their own place seem well gone...

 

[Ms T]

It's true what Mrs M says, about kids not leaving home. My brother has been trying to get rid of his but it's not working, they are 20 and 21. Just can't afford to pay rent, they live in Sevenoaks in Kent. The cheeky buggers don't give up any housekeeping though.

If they're working, they can afford to make some contribution, surely. Sounds like they're taking the piss somewhat...

 

[Orang Utan]

It's true what Mrs M says, about kids not leaving home. My brother has been trying to get rid of his but it's not working, they are 20 and 21. Just can't afford to pay rent, they live in Sevenoaks in Kent. The cheeky buggers don't give up any housekeeping though.

A friend's little brother is 24 and still lives at home (in Ashford, Kent) - he's got a job but he can't look after himself cos he's been spoilt all of his life.
His mum went away for a fortnight and left him 14 ready meals in the freezer and 14 Pot Noodles cos he can't even make himself sandwiches. By the 3rd day, he'd eaten all the Pot Noodles.


Sorry, carry on!

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I reckon if a young adult is living at home they should hand over half their wage-packet to their Mum, meself.....

 

[gaijingirl]

My brother still lives at home at 29 and he gives money to my Mum..

..on the one occasion in the last 14 years when I had to spend *shudders at memory* 3 months at home, I paid for it too*...




*financially and mentally..

 

[Donna Ferentes]

most single young people will never get onto the housing ladder themselves without assistance of some sort.

It's marginally easier to get on the ladder

Auughhhh! That bloody phrase again!

 

[IntoStella]

I reckon if a young adult is living at home they should hand over half their wage-packet to their Mum, meself.....

Unfortunately that doesn't really encourage them to have a wage packet.

 

[newbie]

Isn't that true of nearly every property in London and the surrounding area now though? Unless there are plenty of <£100k properties around that I've failed to notice, most single young people will never get onto the housing ladder themselves without assistance of some sort.

It's marginally easier to get on the ladder with a partner or friends, but the days of a single person on low-average income buying their own place seem well gone...

I wonder how long those days lasted? I'd guess a few years in the 80s & 90s, between housing booms. Pre-Thatcher the proportion of the population that owned their own homes was smaller than now, and even smaller amongst single people.

There is a trend, alongside the youth making their way to London, for each of us to occupy far more space than previously. The number of single person households continues to rise (38% in Lambeth, 2001) as (I think) does the average number of rooms per person.

Is the expectation that a single person in their 20s should be able to afford to buy a home reasonable?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Unfortunately that doesn't really encourage them to have a wage packet.

This is something I have discovered......

 

[ViolentPanda]

Isn't that true of nearly every property in London and the surrounding area now though? Unless there are plenty of <£100k properties around that I've failed to notice, most single young people will never get onto the housing ladder themselves without assistance of some sort.

It's marginally easier to get on the ladder with a partner or friends, but the days of a single person on low-average income buying their own place seem well gone...

There's another one of those strange "circles" at work here.
I can remember hearing stories from my parents and others of their and my granparent's generations talking about shared housing with communal facilities, and it seems to me that this is what a combination of the unaffordability of "starter housing" and the rise of "Buy to Let" (and it's accompanying conversion of houses into flats/bedsits) has brought back into common experience. This sector appears to have shrunk from the 1960s through to the mid 1980s, now it has reasserted it's place in housing distribution.
Whether a person believes that this is a good thing, a bad thing or something that has to be borne will ultimately depend on which location one views the situation from. Myself, I see it as a possible harbinger of the return of the slum as openly acceptable housing for "the lower orders", with the various social strata "above" the working class judged at least partly by their housing situation.
In the 21st century we're going back to the 19th century.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Is the expectation that a single person in their 20s should be able to afford to buy a home reasonable?

Well, it's a relative question, isn't it? First, it's relative to the availability of alternatives. If you can rent affordably and securely, it's not so important. Second, it's relative to the increasing overall wealth produced by society. There's no reason for expectations not to rise a little over time.

 

[poster342002]

I wonder how long those days lasted? I'd guess a few years in the 80s & 90s, between housing booms. Pre-Thatcher the proportion of the population that owned their own homes was smaller than now, and even smaller amongst single people.

There is a trend, alongside the youth making their way to London, for each of us to occupy far more space than previously. The number of single person households continues to rise (38% in Lambeth, 2001) as (I think) does the average number of rooms per person.

Is the expectation that a single person in their 20s should be able to afford to buy a home reasonable?

The difference was that they could at least afford to rent something - even if not something particularly wonderful. Now even that is impossible for many. What are people supposed to do - live at their parents' home for the rest of their lives?!

 

[Hollis]

The difference was that they could at least afford to rent something - even if not something particularly wonderful. Now even that is impossible for many. What are people supposed to do - live at their parents' home for the rest of their lives?!

I find that hard to believe.. generally the surplus of buy-to-let properties has made rents fairly static in London generally. Guess you pay a premium for living somewhere fashionable.

 

[poster342002]

I find that hard to believe.. generally the suplus of buy-to-let properties has made rents fairly static in London generally. Guess you pay a premium for living somewhere fashionable.

Well I've got news for you - I've experienced the situation of having difficulty trying to find a bedsit for under £400 per month. In any part of London.

This happened almost overnight during 1999 or so. From them on they have remained fairly static - statically high.

 

[Hollis]

Well I've got news for you - I've experienced the situation of having difficulty trying to find a bedsit for under £400 per month. In any part of London.

Maybe you should look for a rented room in a shared house then. £400 a month was pushing it 3-4 years ago tbh.

 

[IntoStella]

In the 21st century we're going back to the 19th century.

I used to know an old chap in his 80s in West Norwood who had lived in the same street all his life. He, his mum and dad and his 11 brothers and sisters occupied a one bedroom flat. Yes, that's 14 people, one bedroom. They had reclining chairs that they could pull out at bedtime.

If people refuse to be pushed out of their communities then I can imagine them living like this in years to come. And I have no faith in John Prescott to do anything about it. You can't promote 'sustainable communities' on the one hand while pushing people out into high density, poorly planned, poorly designed and no doubt poorly built housing outside London on the other. The 'Sustainable Communities' and 'Homes for All' slogans really boil down to 'Building the Slums of the Future'.

 

[poster342002]

Maybe you should look for a rented room in a shared house then. £400 a month was pushing it 3-4 years ago tbh.

That's just it - until fairly recently you wouldn't have to do this.

 

[newbie]

The difference was that they could at least afford to rent something - even if not something particularly wonderful. Now even that is impossible for many. What are people supposed to do - live at their parents' home for the rest of their lives?!

There's only a partial truth there. Prior to the Thatcher changes there was only a small private rented sector, and most of that was heavily rent controlled. Landlords worked hard at finding ways round the Rent Acts (Brixton had a particularly thriving 'holiday let' market, for instance), but that included getting round the security of tenure aspects as well.

One of the reasons for the explosion of squatting in the 70s (along with a vast supply of unwanted homes) was the difficulties involved in renting somewhere to live. There is a far, far greater supply now, partially because tenants don't have anything like the same rights.

I have the strong impression that previous generations didn't leave 'home' until they married, and they could only do that when they had somewhere to live. A very vicious circle I have no desire to return to.

 

[Hollis]

That's just it - until fairly recently you wouldn't have to do this.

Even 5-10 years ago I'd have said £400 a month for a bedsit was being abit cheapish. I think you're just being unrealistic. When I was an evil young professional 10 years ago I lived in a room in a shared house and so did many of my evil colleagues.

<sorry about that>

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Yeah, but that's the point, isn't it? Even a bedsit is bizarrely expensive.

 

[newbie]

The 'Sustainable Communities' and 'Homes for All' slogans really boil down to 'Building the Slums of the Future'.

Maybe they should be aiming to encourage young people to live near where they grew up? That's not to say 'compell', but throwing all the resources at the popular cities will surely increase the tendency for everywhere else to have a significant shortage of young people.

 

[Hollis]

Yeah, but that's the point, isn't it? Even a bedsit is bizarrely expensive.

No it isn't. You're a cheapskate.

 

[tarannau]

Even 5-10 years ago I'd have said £400 a month for a bedsit was being abit cheapish. I think you're just being unrealistic.

I'd agree with that. £400 for a self contained bedsit is pretty cheap ime - houseshares have been going for that rate for at least the last 5 years, if not 10...

 

[Donna Ferentes]

No it isn't. You're a cheapskate.

Please tell me you're joking. Because if you're not, you're a long way out of order.

 

[Hollis]

Please tell me you're joking. Because if you're not, you're a long way ouit of order.

No, I'm not joking. £400 for a bedsit.. you're having a laugh.

 

[newbie]

Yeah, but that's the point, isn't it? Even a bedsit is bizarrely expensive.

If the problems were being caused purely by an influx of the rich would that necessarily be the case?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Then you are out of order. The point is that you should be able to afford a bedsit. I should be able to afford a bedsit. And the fact that I can't doesn't make me a cheapskate. It doesn't actually say anything about me. But your use of the term tells us something not at all pleasant about you.

 

[poster342002]

Even 5-10 years ago I'd have said £400 a month for a bedsit was being abit cheapish. I think you're just being unrealistic.

Well, try living on the sort of income where that's all you could afford (and even then with difficulty). What then?

 

[poster342002]

No it isn't. You're a cheapskate.

You've got to be joking?!

EDIT: Justin beat me to it.

 

[fanta]

Please tell me you're joking. Because if you're not, you're a long way out of order.

Hollis is not out of order Justin - you're right, it is expensive, but expensive is normal.