"Young professionals" to infest flats above Iceland

[Donna Ferentes]

Providing income and employment for people who work in the shops.

This isn't necessarily so. In fact, if mobile, they may be more likely to shop elsewhere than other locally-based people may be.

 

[hayduke]

No it isn't. It's in favour of social housing.

Which I am in favour of too. But if it is not going to be social housing is it better left to rot?

 

[Bob]

We have two developments going up here in Redbridge, one block of luxury flats which will probably be bought by proessional people, as they are very expensive, another development is a mixture of affordable lower cost part ownership flats and houses. This sort of thing is ok, they are building for people who have different incomes. The "Yuppies," remember,who have the higher incomes, will almost definitely be shopping in the same places as me and my friends, like Ilford and Romford, the local High St. Providing income and employment for people who work in the shops.

Hats off to Stobart for her second attempt on the thread to say something sensible without getting flamed.

Otherwise the tone (and number of posts) of this thread feels like the good old days of mutual pie throwing abuse.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Which I am in favour of too. But if it is not going to be social housing is it better left to rot?

What this question means is: "if I discount all the answers which I disagree with, will you give the answer that I agree with?"

If you scroll up the thread you'll find reasons to doubt your preconceptions.

 

[Stobart Stopper]

This isn't necessarily so. In fact, if mobile, they may be more likely to shop elsewhere than other locally-based people may be.

But many of the professionals/Yuppie types who lived in my mum's area (Leyton) always shopped locally, I knew quite a few of them and we used to see them in the local Indian shops and corner shops etc. These developments I speak of are right near tube stations, I bet many of the people who will live in the yuppie flats will use public transport alot of the time, and will be less likely to use their cars like we do,for local shopping etc.

 

[Pickman's model]

as i pointed out several pages back, the people behind this development are building/refurbishing flats in newham and lewisham - and lambeth. it seems to me that it's very unlikely that they are doing this for the benefit of local residents, and much more likely that they are doing this across london for their own foul yuppie importing reasons. if they were doing it for local people, i imagine you'd see them doing flats in a broader spectrum of london boroughs, rather than in three of the most deprived; which is sadly where yuppies tend to be attracted to.

 

[editor]

This isn't necessarily so. In fact, if mobile, they may be more likely to shop elsewhere than other locally-based people may be.

Can you run that by me again?

Why would these "infesting yuppies" be less likely to buy locally than, say, a Brixtonite working in town?

I'd imagine some of the "young professionals" would enjoy flexible working hours, work from home or - God forbid! - work locally and thus have ample time to shop locally.

Or will they be having hampers sent in from Fortnum and Mason or something?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Can you run that by me again?

Why would these "infesting yuppies" be less likely to buy locally than, say, an Brixtonite working in town??

i have no idea what this phrase means, not having used it myself.

 

[editor]

i have no idea what this phrase means, not having used it myself.

Really? That's rather strange seeing as you've been a keen contributor to a thread where the phrase has been bandied about throughout!

But seeing as you're having trouble with that phrase, I'll reword my question in the hope that you might prodice a rare straight answer:

Why would these new residents of Electric Avenue be less likely to buy locally than, say, a Brixtonite working in town?

I'd imagine some of the "young professionals" would enjoy flexible working hours, work from home or - God forbid! - work locally and thus have ample time to shop locally.

Or will they be having hampers sent in from Fortnum and Mason or something?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

But many of the professionals/Yuppie types who lived in my mum's area (Leyton) always shopped locally, I knew quite a few of them and we used to see them in the local Indian shops and corner shops etc. These developments I speak of are right near tube stations, I bet many of the people who will live in the yuppie flats will use public transport alot of the time, and will be less likely to use their cars like we do,for local shopping etc.

Of course that's true up to a point. And it's not like Sainsbury's Local in Brixton doesn't have a fair number of young professionals shopping there (in fact, if it didn't, I doubt whether it would be there in the first place). But I'm not sure that young professionals - perhaps more likely to be mobile, perhaps more likely to work out of the area, certainly more likely to eat out - will shop locally quite as much as less well-off people. It'd be interesting to see a study, I bet the supermarkets think about this stuff all the time.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Really? That's rather strange seeing as you've been a keen contributor to a thread on that very topic!

As have you. But as I haven't used the phrase, I am not sure why it is used in connection with a question posed to me personally. Unless it's supposed to connect me with it somehow, and I'm sure you wouldn't be so unscrupulous as to do that.

 

[editor]

As have you. But as I haven't used the phrase, I am not sure why it is used in connection with a question posed to me personally. Unless it's supposed to connect me with it somehow, and I'm sure you wouldn't be so unscrupulous as to do that.

I've already reworded the question and removed the phrase that you don't seem to understand.

Now will you answer my question please or is there something else you don't understand in there?

 

[Pickman's model]

i wouldn't be surprised should pub prices increase in the albert &c to take advantage of the yuppies' disposable income.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Now will you answer my question please or is there something else you don't understand in there?

Possibly "the need for you to take the tone you do in interrogating other posters". It's really a very poor debating technique if the idea is to produce a rational discussion. It contributes very little and produces even less.

 

[Stobart Stopper]

Of course that's true up to a point. And it's not like Sainsbury's Local in Brixton doesn't have a fair number of young professionals shopping there (in fact, if it didn't, I doubt whether it would be there in the first place). But I'm not sure that young professionals - perhaps more likely to be mobile, perhaps more likely to work out of the area, certainly more likely to eat out - will shop locally quite as much as less well-off people. It'd be interesting to see a study, I bet the supermarkets think about this stuff all the time.

So, do you think that the hundreds of people I see in places like Romford and Ilford are mostly all local working class Essex-types? Becasue the young woman I was behind in Monsoon a few weeks ago looked and sounded like a "Yuppie" and she spent £600.
More than I could afford too!

 

[Pickman's model]

monsoon? some sort of indian takeaway?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

So, do you think that the hundreds of people I see in places like Romford and Ilford are mostly all local working class Essex-types? Becasue the young woman I was behind in Monsoon a few weeks ago looked and sounded like a "Yuppie" and she spent £600.
More than I could afford too!

Indeed. In fact I was going to say above (but forgot) that even if they shop less locally, that might be counterbalanced by the likelihood that they will have more to spend. That's why I'd rather like to see evidence from studies, and what the supermarkets reckon. There's a lot of preconceptions going around about what's actually a rather mixed picture. But it shouldn't necessarily be thought that young professionals bring employment to an area. That's clearly possible, there are things you can see (and have seen) with your own eyes that make it possible, but there's other factors in play.

You'd probably see my sister shopping in Ilford if you looked hard enough.

 

[Bob]

i wouldn't be surprised should pub prices increase in the albert &c to take advantage of the yuppies' disposable income.

Because of 12 flats?

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Great thread

We've had this argument countless times before. This is just another installment in the loss of property to the wealthy: under 15 dwellings in order to get round planning laws, not affordable etc. This process is slowly changing the sort of people that are able to live in Brixton.

The proposed units will offer accommodation to single young professionals and couples

I actually find it very strange that the developers are specifying the sort of people that would buy the flats. This isn't usual is it? Why can't a flat be sold to, say, a local retired couple who want to sell their big house just off Brixton Hill and get a smaller place nearer the shops? The developers know exactly what they're doing - they want wealthy youngish people to move into the area, attracted by the tube and the nightlife, but (and I generalise a little here) these people are less likely to want to contribute in a meaningful way to the community. I mean, can you see a young wealthy couple wanting to get involved in the consultation for Brixton Central Square when they'll probbaly fuck off and make a £50k profit in two year's time?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Because of 12 flats?

TREND, Bob! TREND! TREND!!!

 

[Donna Ferentes]

but (and I generalise a little here) these people are less likely to want to contribute in a meaningful way to the community. I mean, can you see a young wealthy couple wanting to get involved in the consultation for Brixton Central Square when they'll probbaly fuck off and make a £50k profit in two year's time?

This is a very important point. Who's going to care about the schools if there are fewer people with children (or if the incomers send their kids to the London Oratory)?

Or maybe they'll care more, because very often the middle-class are more concerned about education. But these things need to be thought about, if people are going to look after the future of a community.

 

[Giles]

Great thread

We've had this argument countless times before. This is just another installment in the loss of property to the wealthy: under 15 dwellings in order to get round planning laws, not affordable etc. This process is slowly changing the sort of people that are able to live in Brixton.


I actually find it very strange that the developers are specifying the sort of people that would buy the flats. This isn't usual is it? Why can't a flat be sold to, say, a local retired couple who want to sell their big house just off Brixton Hill and get a smaller place nearer the shops? The developers know exactly what they're doing - they want wealthy youngish people to move into the area, attracted by the tube and the nightlife, but (and I generalise a little here) these people are less likely to want to contribute in a meaningful way to the community. I mean, can you see a young wealthy couple wanting to get involved in the consultation for Brixton Central Square when they'll probbaly fuck off and make a £50k profit in two year's time?

I'm sure that the developers won't care at all WHO buys their flats.

If your example retired couple walked into the agents handling the sale and said "we've just sold our big house on Brixton Hill etc etc, and we want to buy this flat" I can't see them saying no.

Giles..

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm sure that the developers won't care at all WHO buys their flats.

If your example retired couple walked into the agents handling the sale and said "we've just sold our big house on Brixton Hill etc etc, and we want to buy this flat" I can't see them saying no.

Giles..

but that ain't going to happen, is it?

this notional retired couple would find free accommodation in one of the remaining secure psychiatrick wards if they tried to pull a stunt like that.

 

[editor]

Possibly "the need for you to take the tone you do in interrogating other posters". It's really a very poor debating technique if the idea is to produce a rational discussion. It contributes very little and produces even less.

It only becomes an 'interrogation' when you keep on refusing to answer perfectly reasonable questions with tedious nitpicking and pedantry.

It's not even a debating technique. It's just annoying.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm sure that the developers won't care at all WHO buys their flats.

If your example retired couple walked into the agents handling the sale and said "we've just sold our big house on Brixton Hill etc etc, and we want to buy this flat" I can't see them saying no.

Giles..

Come off it Giles, we both know it isn't about who ACTUALLY buys the flats, it's about the particular image of the development the developer(s) wish to project, which appears to be of (going by Pickman's Model's info about similar developments by the same company in other "edgy and vibrant" london boroughs) "apartments" for "happening" types who want to experience a bit of "urban culture".
Whether the flats are actually bought by such types or by incontinent camel-molesters is beside the point of that projected image.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Hats off to Stobart for her second attempt on the thread to say something sensible without getting flamed.

Otherwise the tone (and number of posts) of this thread feels like the good old days of mutual pie throwing abuse.

Where would you like me to send your wooden spoon to, oh stirring one?

 

[tarannau]

Come off it Giles, we both know it isn't about who ACTUALLY buys the flats, it's about the particular image of the development the developer(s) wish to project, which appears to be of (going by Pickman's Model's info about similar developments by the same company in other "edgy and vibrant" london boroughs) "apartments" for "happening" types who want to experience a bit of "urban culture".
Whether the flats are actually bought by such types or by incontinent camel-molesters is beside the point of that projected image.

Two problems with this simplified view:

1) Developers don't tend to sell the property. There'll be a vending agent, possibly with their own ad agency account, that'll tend to set the pace.

2) Is the term 'young professsional' really equivalent to 'thrillseeking yuppies seeking edgy and vibrant locale?' or similar. I think there's a danger of reading too much into the positioning - I suspect that they're aiming these flats at 'young professionals' because:
a) The expectations of young housebuyers may be less, and these flats are priced in a theroetically affordable way.
b) The poisition is noisy, piss-streaked and right in the middle of things.They're also smallish flats on higher floors. These dubious qualities tend to make it more attractive to the young rather than families.
c) You'd have to be a professional to afford any property in London. This flat is no exception.

Do you really believe that a few Estate Agents' signs and a bit of marketing are going to really change Brixton's longstanding image. Whatever the brochure might say, the flats are still likely to attract those already drawn to Brixton in some way, not some mystical ruthless yuppie population with scorn for the surroundings and £-signs in their eyes...

 

[Bob]

Where would you like me to send your wooden spoon to, oh stirring one?

A bit confused as to why I'm stirring...

 

[Pickman's model]

A bit confused as to why I'm stirring...

so are we.

 

[Bob]

so are we.

Laugh, I almost shat.