Yet another US college gun slaughter - "at least 10" killed in Oregan shooting

[8den]

And let's keep talking about Australia it demolished all Athos points

 

[8den]

The way that was consistent with what I actually wrote.

God you're pathetic

 

[8ball]

The clue is in the name "amendment" it's not writ in stone and underlined twice. The is can change its constitution there's lots of precedents.

This is better.

 

[Athos]

Canada has more rigid gun control laws

Yet, even a cursory glance at wikipedia reveals academic studies which question the effect that tightening gun control has had on firarm homicides. All of which rather goes to one of my points that the issue is far more complex than you and others like are willing to admit.

 

[Tony_LeaS]

Yet, even a cursory glance at wikipedia reveals academic studies which question the effect that tightening gun control has had on firarm homicides. All of which rather goes to one of my points that the issue is far more complex than you and others like are willing to admit.

Is that down to gun laws or possible border control problems?

 

[8ball]

Yet, even a cursory glance at wikipedia reveals academic studies which question the effect that tightening gun control has had on firarm homicides. All of which rather goes to one of my points that the issue is far more complex than you and others like are willing to admit.

One important factor being the culture of the country in question.

I think in the case of the USA, factoring this in bolsters the case for gun control, though.

 

[Athos]

And let's keep talking about Australia it demolished all Athos points

Except it didn't, did it. It doesn't even begin to address the issue of gun ownership being a defence against state tyrany. The fact that Tony Abbott didn't round up the Jews doesn't detract from the historical precedent or the logical possibility that such an outcome might flow from other such bans. All it does prove is that, in a country where such a ban is workable (which I dispute is the case in the US) it reduced mass shootings. But, even then, I'm not sure there was a statistically significant number of such events pre-ban to prove that causation.

 

[likesfish]

Thing is the milita was a bit pants in 1776 running away when faced with the redcoats utterly failed in 1812 resulting in the whitehouse ending up flamabed and pretty useless in the american spanish war.
So the whole idea was obselte by the end of the 19th centuary.
If obama went crazy the US military would follow him rather than assorted "oath bearers" so your collection of army surplus tat and a rifle against a tank the tank wins.
If one side has an army and the other doesnt the side with the military wins so the red dawn fantasys are just that but the yanks end up with the mad shooting up schools. The paranoid shooting at strangers because they are scared.

 

[Athos]

One important factor being the culture of the country in question.

I think in the case of the USA, factoring this in bolsters the case for gun control, though.

According to others on here, there is no difference in the culture when it comes to guns!

 

[Athos]

God you're pathetic

Great comeback.

 

[two sheds]

The clue is in the name "amendment" it's not writ in stone and underlined twice. The is can change its constitution there's lots of precedents.

Indeed, and if Supreme Court can rule one way it can rule another.

 

[Idris2002]

"gun ownership being a defence against state tyrany"

This is just a mild version of the same diseased narcissism that drives people like the current scumbag. "Look at me, Look at me, LOOOOOOKKKK ATTTT MEEE".

 

[8den]

Great comeback.

Considering the level of Illiterate Alex Jones level bullshit you've come out with its more than you deserve

 

[Athos]

Indeed, and if Supreme Court can rule one way it can rule another.

There'd still be a massive issue with implimentation. Where are these 300,000,000 guns? Who is going to surrender them? Who will enforce this law?

 

[Athos]

Considering the level of Illiterate Alex Jones level bullshit you've come out with its more than you deserve

Nice stuff. You're much better at this ad hominem than you are actually cobbling together a coherent argument. Crack on.

 

[DotCommunist]

"gun ownership being a defence against state tyrany"

This is just a mild version of the same diseased narcissism that drives people like the current scumbag. "Look at me, Look at me, LOOOOOOKKKK ATTTT MEEE".

and it manifestly isn't protection is it, waco and how many others have shown that they'll crush you with tanks and planes and fire and the national guard. It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight in terms of who has the biggest corps and weapons etc

 

[Plumdaff]

As it's an area of heavy gun ownership, how likely is it that other people were armed on site?
Given that the NRA often argue that more guns are the answer, is this a situation which shows that up as the patent bullshit it is?

 

[8den]

Except it didn't, did it. It doesn't even begin to address the issue of gun ownership being a defence against state tyrany. The fact that Tony Abbott didn't round up the Jews doesn't detract from the historical precedent or the logical possibility that such an outcome might flow from other such bans. All it does prove is that, in a country where such a ban is workable (which I dispute is the case in the US) it reduced mass shootings. But, even then, I'm not sure there was a statistically significant number of such events pre-ban to prove that causation.

Then you don't know what the fuck you are talking about mass shootings were regular happening frequently in the months prior to port Arthur.

Australia is a wealth western democracy with a high level of gun ownership so it's a perfectly valid comparison

And quit wibbling about state tyranny.

You think an ar 15 is going to effective against Abraham tanks and predator drones?

 

[8den]

Yet, even a cursory glance at wikipedia reveals academic studies which question the effect that tightening gun control has had on firarm homicides. All of which rather goes to one of my points that the issue is far more complex than you and others like are willing to admit.

Except sigh the fact that it does work

 

[Idris2002]

and it manifestly isn't protection is it, waco and how many others have shown that they'll crush you with tanks and planes and fire and the national guard. It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight in terms of who has the biggest corps and weapons etc

Also, if you quiz them further, their idea of what counts as tyranny is a bit. . . niche. "Major Major's father believed that federal aid to anyone but farmers was creeping socialism".

 

[8ball]

According to others on here, there is no difference in the culture when it comes to guns!

We do seem to be wavering between over-simplistic tribal squawking and something a little more constructive.

 

[8ball]

and it manifestly isn't protection is it, waco and how many others have shown that they'll crush you with tanks and planes and fire and the national guard. It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight in terms of who has the biggest corps and weapons etc

Yeah, they have all that and chemical weapons and nukes.

If you had a true mass uprising of the kind that might be effective, I don't know how much extra use guns would be.
I can't think of any comparable examples...

 

[DotCommunist]

Also, if you quiz them further, their idea of what counts as tyranny is a bit. . . niche. "Major Major's father believed that federal aid to anyone but farmers was creeping socialism".

it occurs to me that the religious nut/commune/etc sieges show exactly how organised militias don't even get to that stage. cointelpro and whatever its succesors are dismantle em from the inside cos large organisations are leaky and they have all the spy powers etc. Hence when it does come to a toe-to-toe, its with some off grid mentals who'v been a little....insular

 

[Athos]

Then you don't know what the fuck you are talking about mass shootings were regular happening frequently in the months prior to port Arthur.

Australia is a wealth western democracy with a high level of gun ownership so it's a perfectly valid comparison

And quit wibbling about state tyranny.

You think an ar 15 is going to effective against Abraham tanks and predator drones?

Firearms homicides in Australia were declining steadily before Port Aurthur. By no stretch of the imagination were mass shootings regular in the early months of 1996.

Are you seriously suggesting that unarmed peole are no more easy to tyrannise than armed ones?

 

[Athos]

Except sigh the fact that it does work

No. That is not proven, I'm afraid.

 

[8den]

Nice stuff. You're much better at this ad hominem than you are actually cobbling together a coherent argument. Crack on.

That's because you are ignoring everyone's arguments going on your own tangents and spouting Alex Jones Glen Beck nonsense. Which is why everyone holds you in contempt

 

[Idris2002]

it occurs to me that the religious nut/commune/etc sieges show exactly how organised militias don't even get to that stage. cointelpro and whatever its succesors are dismantle em from the inside cos large organisations are leaky and they have all the spy powers etc. Hence when it does come to a toe-to-toe, its with some off grid mentals who'v been a little....insular

I'm thinking more of the "Nazis were socialist because they had the word socialist in the name of their party" crowd. . . but the, eh, special people you allude to are certainly part of life's rich tapestry in this department.

 

[8den]

No. That is not proven, I'm afraid.

Australia and The UK western countries that enacted gun controls and buy backs both of which saw mass shootings reduced to zero. Ignoring them doesn't mean they didn't happen

 

[Idris2002]

You, Athos, have a pathetic macho fantasy of being a revolutionary people's fighter. . . if you knew what that really meant, if you knew what it was like to be trapped in a situation where men with guns (including yourself) are fighting over the corpse of what was once a society, you wouldn't hold on to that fantasy. Or maybe you're so fucked in the head you would hold on to it.

 

[Athos]

That's because you are ignoring everyone's arguments going on your own tangents and spouting Alex Jones Glen Beck nonsense. Which is why everyone holds you in contempt

You speaking for everyone, now?

Which of your 'arguments' haven't I addressed (and effectively countered)?

Listen, I'm sure your heart's in the right place, but your knee-jerk liberal response of 'the US should ban guns' is very poorly thought-through.