ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
And stricter sentencing for infringement.
Yet another US college gun slaughter - "at least 10" killed in Oregan shooting
- Thread starter TomUS
- Start date
And stricter sentencing for infringement.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
was a bit pants in 1776 running away when faced with the redcoats utterly failed in 1812 resulting in the whitehouse ending up flamabed and pretty useless in the american spanish war.
So the whole idea was obselte by the end of the 19th centuary.
If obama went crazy the US military would follow him rather than assorted "oath bearers" so your collection of army surplus tat and a rifle against a tank the tank wins.
If one side has an army and the other doesnt the side with the military wins so the red dawn fantasys are just that but the yanks end up with the mad shooting up schools. The paranoid shooting at strangers because they are scared.
We see the word "militia" and immediately think of legally-constituted paramilitary units. At the time the US constitution was written, it meant that, but also meant "local self-constituted defence bodies with no official sanction", simply because in some areas "the law" in terms of government sanction was neither present enough or powerful enough to say differently.
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
I'm not saying that a buy back would be simple or easy to do. But it's not impossible.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It's certainly a convenient argument, and one that is utilised across a broad political spectrum. It does have some small utility in terms of local tyranny historically though, and that feeds into modern arguments.
I think we need to pay more attention to how the federal state benefits, though. While the benefits aren't immediately obvious, it's certainly the case that the threat of armed paramilitaries in border states have made people smugglers need to up their game.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Sure, but at that volume, and across so many state polities, we're currently in the range of "technically-feasible, but legally and economically non-feasible", even were the political will there.
Of course it's impossible. It would provoke a revolution, and that's no exaggeration.
BandWagon
Life's a bitch and then you die...
Not that this link is in the slightest degree biased, but guns contributes $33bn and 220,000 jobs to the economy:
Stubborn Facts: The Gun Industry Employs Twice as Many Americans as GM (and That’s Just the Beginning)
It is big business, though, and never mind the costs associated with the 30,000 gun deaths a year.
Stubborn Facts: The Gun Industry Employs Twice as Many Americans as GM (and That’s Just the Beginning)
It is big business, though, and never mind the costs associated with the 30,000 gun deaths a year.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
BandWagon
Life's a bitch and then you die...
It is a fact though that guns are business and Americans love business, which is a driver.I'm not too sure where you're going with this...
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Abortions are also business (in the US health care model) and the American conservative right aren't so keen on those. I think its an irrelevant angle.
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
Yes yes it is.
BandWagon
Life's a bitch and then you die...
I don't think the abortion industry grosses $33bn a year. The gun industry drives the advertising and buys the politicians so you'd expect it to have an effect.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I don't know about impossible, but it would be a hell of a struggle. The knowledge of arms making is so embedded that there are probably hundreds of thousands who can make their own not even counting those who work in the industry that BandWagon has pointed out, so even a buyback is incredibly difficult once you couple that with the fact that we can only estimate the number of guns already out there.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
That quote refers to the 'firearms industry' - are you sure that is all the domestic market?
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
You'd have to resolve yourself to seeing hundreds of little Wacos if you tried a compulsory buy back. I don't think even those in favor of gun control would be willing to kill a couple thousand people implementing it.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
A couple of thousand? That's a smidge over two months of firearms homicides at the usual rate.
Not supporting such a thing, just trying to provide a little context.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yeah, it's got to be politics of the possible. The country has between 30 and 50 per cent of all civilian guns in the world. You're not going to get rid of all those right away.
What level of support does the 2nd amendment have, would you say, and who is it primarily who supports it? If there are lessons to be learned from Brazil, I would think that they are that gun control measures need to come as a bottom-up response to gun crime, not a top-down imposition.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
I'm aware of the stats. The people who own lots of guns see the gun violence issue as something that doesn't effect them. (For them, its a "black on black crime" issue as racist as that may be). If you brought the issue home to them, there'd be hell to pay.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yeah, but some deaths have different meanings from others. Thousands killed by the state for refusing to hand over guns that many people in the country believe they have a right to own?
On this at least, I agree with dwyer - it's an impossibility to disarm the US at the moment.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
the 'and public support' bit is crucial here. Also, the mass shootings make the news, but most of the victims of gun crime in the US are young, black men, whose deaths barely even make the local news, let alone the international media. Ending their deaths is the main issue wrt gun crime in the US - and as in Brazil, talking about that without also talking about drugs and social deprivation is pointless.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
For some it would be all their right-wing, anti-government fears/fantasies come true.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I agree with you both, at least on most point. I think it would go well over a couple of thousand once the One World Government rumour mill was up to speed.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
I don't see the political will for space exploration either. More the pity.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
That's how it will stay until propulsion technology reaches the necessary point and they find an asteroid made of gold.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I have been reading some comments on another site:
guns are not the problem, killers are
Killers only target schools because they can't fight back, get guns in schools and they will be safe!
Always the same sort of stuff, lunacy, I am so glad we didn't arm the population of my sons secondary school so that they would "be safe!" ..
guns are not the problem, killers are
Killers only target schools because they can't fight back, get guns in schools and they will be safe!
Always the same sort of stuff, lunacy, I am so glad we didn't arm the population of my sons secondary school so that they would "be safe!" ..
No, obviously it would make no difference to the number of guns already in existence.
This is yet another example of the emotional reaction that replaces logic in the minds of so many anti-gun loonies.
I don't know what you've been reading, but nobody sensible is suggesting that schoolchildren should be armed.
However it is undeniable that, had the victims of the college shooting been armed, fewer of them would have been killed.
The American public is massively in favor of maintaining the second amendment as it stands. Furthermore, that support grows stronger with every mass shooting, because people better understand the need for self-defense.
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