Yes or No -AV referendum May 2011

[articul8]

Err - no I don't think either PR or Butchers are Tories. They are just making a ham-fisted tactical call that plays into the hands of the Tories. Which is why Warsi said defeating AV was their number one priority in May.

 

[Proper Tidy]

There was enough dissent in the SP to make for some debate at their conference I hear - even if the wrong call was made.

Dissent lol. It was a conference, it is kind of the point of it to have debate. Support for AV was roundly rejected.

And why is my profession relevant where your's isn't. Come to that, Butchers - how do you earn a crust?

Because you make a living from holding certain political positions you fucking socdec hack.

 

[butchersapron]

Why what?

Why what you're paid to do matters more than anyone else. It's that declaration of an interest problem again. Have you really no standards?

 

[articul8]

If everyone agrees from the off then you move onto the next issue - there was clearly enough resistance to the EC line to mean there was need for a debate

I held those positions to begin with so taking a salary to campaign for them is in no way any kind of sell out. Now, why the reticence to declare your own source(s) of income?

 

[articul8]

Why what you're paid to do matters more than anyone else. It's that declaration of an interest problem again. Have you really no standards?

I've not made any secret of my position. Why the reticence about yours?

 

[butchersapron]

I've not made any secret of my position. Why the reticence about yours?

Position/ employment? More of this tonight.

 

[articul8]

Position/ employment? More of this tonight.

What about yourself?

 

[Proper Tidy]

If everyone agrees from the off then you move onto the next issue - there was clearly enough resistance to the EC line to mean there was need for a debate

I held those positions to begin with so taking a salary to campaign for them is in no way any kind of sell out. Now, why the reticence to declare your own source(s) of income?

We also had a motion to change the name back to Militant. Oh noes, dissent!

It was a conference you bellend. We had loads of motions. It would have been a short conference if everybody just said 'yeah, we agree'. Like it or not, the whole point of democratic centralism is you debate it first.

 

[articul8]

Would be (mildly - not excessively) interesting to know how many EC positions got voted down. Democratic Centralism Gaddafi style.

 

[butchersapron]

What about yourself?

I'm not employed to argue the no case. I'm not plugged into a network of wanky lib-dem cunts and oxbridge interns, i'm not a fucking empty case but on a job for life. No. You?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Would be (mildly - not excessively) interesting to know how many EC positions got voted down. Democratic Centralism Gaddafi style.

Lol at the man from the Labour Party

 

[Belushi]

Lol at the man from the Labour Party

He's bringing them down from the inside iirc.

 

[articul8]

i'm not a fucking empty case but on a job for life. No. You?

Been on the pop, eh? This does not make sense. How about we have a full declaration of your own interests before you start laying into other people?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Made sense to me, hack

 

[articul8]

Lol at the man from the Labour Party

hmm...the Labour party that is supported by hundreds of thousands of working class people...unlike....

 

[Proper Tidy]

hmm...the Labour party that is supported by hundreds of thousands of working class people...unlike....

Lol. Like the Liberals were when the LP was formed?

 

[frogwoman]

If everyone agrees from the off then you move onto the next issue - there was clearly enough resistance to the EC line to mean there was need for a debate

I held those positions to begin with so taking a salary to campaign for them is in no way any kind of sell out. Now, why the reticence to declare your own source(s) of income?

Not necessarily. the leadership could have said "we are not supporting AV, and that's that" given the fact that very few people there actually supported it and a lot of people had extremely strong feelings against supporting it . i wouldn't have supported it whatever, and i don't think i'd be the only one.

btw i think that given the sp had the same debate it is tbh, probably a bit unfair to criticise the swappies for not being able to come to the same conclusion as rapidly tbf.

the thing is articul8, with the income, it's not relevant because they've not got a vested interest, it's just thier opinion. nobody on this thread is being paid to argue for a political position except you and so it is natural that people will question what you're saying a bit more - unfair perhaps, but it is natural.

 

[butchersapron]

hmm...the Labour party that is supported by hundreds of thousands of working class people...unlike....

This is what you're left with? Join the tory party - lots of w/c members.

 

[articul8]

Lol. Like the Liberals were when the LP was formed?

So you want to remake the Labour party and play out the same scenario for a 2nd time?

 

[Proper Tidy]

btw i think that given the sp had the same debate it is tbh, probably a bit unfair to criticise the swappies for not being able to come to the same conclusion as rapidly tbf.

Nah!

 

[articul8]

This is what you're left with? Join the tory party.

The Tory party was not founded by working class organisations or has ever claimed to represent w/c interests. Not the same at all.

 

[Proper Tidy]

So you want to remake the Labour party and play out the same scenario for a 2nd time?

What a strange conclusion to come to from my post. The answer is no, btw.

People pay you for this shit.

 

[butchersapron]

So you want to remake the Labour party and play out the same scenario for a 2nd time?

Quite right, join the labour party smash it from within and make an extra-parliamentary pie with the lib-dems. There's no other way. You clown.

 

[articul8]

the thing is articul8, with the income, it's not relevant because they've not got a vested interest, it's just thier opinion. nobody on this thread is being paid to argue for a political position except you and so it is natural that people will question what you're saying a bit more - unfair perhaps, but it is natural.

I've made no effort to hide or disguise the fact I campaing on this issue profesionally. But if others have nothing to hide, why don't their declare what they do for a living themselves so we're all in the same position?

 

[Proper Tidy]

((Pluralism))

 

[articul8]

Quite right, join the labour party smash it from within and make an extra-parliamentary pie with the lib-dems. There's no other way. You clown.

Who said anything about alliances with lib dems?

 

[Proper Tidy]

I've made no effort to hide or disguise the fact I campaing on this issue profesionally. But if others have nothing to hide, why don't their declare what they do for a living themselves so we're all in the same position?

I'm paid in a professional capacity to call you a cunt.

Cunt.

 

[butchersapron]

The Tory party was not founded by working class organisations or has ever claimed to represent w/c interests. Not the same at all.

Yes it was and yes it does.

Are you really going to be this crude? The labour party says that it represents w/c interests therefore it does. Do you see where you are now?

 

[articul8]

The answer is no, btw.

How will it be different. First time as tragedy, second as farce?

 

[butchersapron]

Who said anything about alliances with lib dems?

History, reality, you, your networked mates.