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Yes/No to AV - Urban Votes

You will vote.....

  • Total voters
    187
  • Poll closed .
ska invita said:
Although im against AV - its the worst of all the options, and gives the big 3 more credibility (because they can claim getting 50% of the vote), im giong to piss in the wind and vote yes, just on the off chance that it happens. If it does happen everyone'll be pissed off with it before too long and there'll be another referendum and there might finally be a chance to get PR, or even AV+ on the cards.
Click to expand...

:facepalm:
 
If it does happen everyone'll be pissed off with it before too long and there'll be another referendum
Click to expand...

Why will there be? How? This is the same crap that you pulled last May - vote lib-dems to get PR, never mind their actual politics, oops there goes the NHS. Have you really learnt nothing?
 
ska invita said:
Although im against AV - its the worst of all the options, and gives the big 3 more credibility (because they can claim getting 50% of the vote), im giong to piss in the wind and vote yes, just on the off chance that it happens. If it does happen everyone'll be pissed off with it before too long and there'll be another referendum and there might finally be a chance to get PR, or even AV+ on the cards.
Click to expand...

Oh ska!
 
ska invita said:
Although im against AV - its the worst of all the options, and gives the big 3 more credibility (because they can claim getting 50% of the vote), im giong to piss in the wind and vote yes, just on the off chance that it happens. If it does happen everyone'll be pissed off with it before too long and there'll be another referendum and there might finally be a chance to get PR, or even AV+ on the cards.
Click to expand...
That is one tortured logic trail there
 
I wish people on the Yes to AV camp would understand this - there is NOT going to be a push for PR if AV wins. Cameron is a No, Ed Milliband is a no, and Clegg worms out of answering this one. If AV wins, the fix is in, the constituency boundaries gerrymandered, and the Tories will be crowing that they've got their way anyway.
 
ska invita said:
Although im against AV - its the worst of all the options, and gives the big 3 more credibility (because they can claim getting 50% of the vote), im giong to piss in the wind and vote yes, just on the off chance that it happens. If it does happen everyone'll be pissed off with it before too long and there'll be another referendum and there might finally be a chance to get PR, or even AV+ on the cards.
Click to expand...

This is pure and simple wishful thinking. It's wanting something to be true so much that you persuade yourself that it is true.

In other words, it has become your religion.
 
MellySingsDoom said:
I wish people on the Yes to AV camp would understand this - there is NOT going to be a push for PR if AV wins. Cameron is a No, Ed Milliband is a no, and Clegg worms out of answering this one. If AV wins, the fix is in, the constituency boundaries gerrymandered, and the Tories will be crowing that they've got their way anyway.
Click to expand...

I thought I'd quote you and bold it to boot!
 
MellySingsDoom said:
I wish people on the Yes to AV camp would understand this - there is NOT going to be a push for PR if AV wins. Cameron is a No, Ed Milliband is a no, and Clegg worms out of answering this one. If AV wins, the fix is in, the constituency boundaries gerrymandered, and the Tories will be crowing that they've got their way anyway.
Click to expand...

And so with the likely 'No' victory they will all become sudden converts to PR? It's pretty irrelevant what the current party leaders think since whatever the result tonight there won't be another change for some years. A vote for AV would at least have demonstrated a desire for a different voting system, would perhaps have encouraged a more democratic system for the House of Lords and would have meant that a move to AV+ (the system recommended by Jenkins in his report in the 1990s) would have been a shorter step away under different future government.

This is the only chance that we've ever had to have a say in the way our elections are decided and I'm a little saddened that we are going to say 'more of the same please'. The debate on changing the voting system will essentially be over now since the supporters of FPTP will be able to argue that the system as it's stands is just fine, since even a minor tweak to the voting system was rejected by voters.
 
Wolfie Smith said:
And so with the likely 'No' victory they will all become sudden converts to PR? It's pretty irrelevant what the current party leaders think since whatever the result tonight there won't be another change for some years. A vote for AV would at least have demonstrated a desire for a different voting system, would perhaps have encouraged a more democratic system for the House of Lords and would have meant that a move to AV+ (the system recommended by Jenkins in his report in the 1990s) would have been a shorter step away under different future government.

This is the only chance that we've ever had to have a say in the way our elections are decided and I'm a little saddened that we are going to say 'more of the same please'. The debate on changing the voting system will essentially be over now since the supporters of FPTP will be able to argue that the system as it's stands is just fine, since even a minor tweak to the voting system was rejected by voters.
Click to expand...
Change isn't a good thing if it is change for the worse. All a No outcome will say is "Please don't make things worse".
 
Wolfie Smith said:
And so with the likely 'No' victory they will all become sudden converts to PR? It's pretty irrelevant what the current party leaders think since whatever the result tonight there won't be another change for some years. A vote for AV would at least have demonstrated a desire for a different voting system, would perhaps have encouraged a more democratic system for the House of Lords and would have meant that a move to AV+ (the system recommended by Jenkins in his report in the 1990s) would have been a shorter step away under different future government.

This is the only chance that we've ever had to have a say in the way our elections are decided and I'm a little saddened that we are going to say 'more of the same please'. The debate on changing the voting system will essentially be over now since the supporters of FPTP will be able to argue that the system as it's stands is just fine, since even a minor tweak to the voting system was rejected by voters.
Click to expand...

That you can still come out with this is insulting. Every single thing you say applies to a YES vote as well. You turn a NO to FPTP, NO to AV into a YES for FPTP for them - you do their job for them if you pretend that that this is what it means. It doesn't.

And more to the point, it totally ignores the content of the proposed change in favour of a context free change-fetishism.
 
I'm also saddened by the fact that we're not going to have a change. But that doesn't translate into me being fooled that this change is the right change.
 
Wolfie Smith said:
And so with the likely 'No' victory they will all become sudden converts to PR? It's pretty irrelevant what the current party leaders think since whatever the result tonight there won't be another change for some years. A vote for AV would at least have demonstrated a desire for a different voting system, would perhaps have encouraged a more democratic system for the House of Lords and would have meant that a move to AV+ (the system recommended by Jenkins in his report in the 1990s) would have been a shorter step away under different future government.

This is the only chance that we've ever had to have a say in the way our elections are decided and I'm a little saddened that we are going to say 'more of the same please'. The debate on changing the voting system will essentially be over now since the supporters of FPTP will be able to argue that the system as it's stands is just fine, since even a minor tweak to the voting system was rejected by voters.
Click to expand...

I think it's time to be positive and pro-active - there's plenty of PR-wanters voting No in this referendum. The case needs to be made for full PR by those of us who are up for it - that means in particular getting the more progressive elements of the Labout Party, Greens, socialist alternatives etc on board. It'll take a long time, sure, but the fight is there to be won.

A vote for AV now would simply be a vote to lock in the neo-liberalist agenda currently in place. "The people have chosen, it's all good, we can carry on with the same policies".
 
Wolfie Smith said:
would perhaps have encouraged a more democratic system for the House of Lords and would have meant that a move to AV+ (the system recommended by Jenkins in his report in the 1990s) would have been a shorter step away under different future government.
Click to expand...
neither of these are necessarily true
 
Yes, I love the tories me and agree with everything the daily mail has to say.

:facepalm:

I may have to delete that before some twat uses it out of context.
 
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