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Yes/No to AV - Urban Votes

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  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .
butchersapron said:
Yes, they can. Av moves the threshold for small parties to 50% plus rather than 35% plus.

The Tories won't win less seats either, as they will be propped up and prop up lib-dem voters, plus they've insured against a yes vote by redrawing boundaries and getting rid of a huge number of seats.

Can you answer my question as to why AV is fairer please.
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Do you really think Lib-Dem voters are gonna choose Tory candidates? Most Lib-Dems hate the Tories as much as you do.
 
Maggot said:
Do you really think Lib-Dem voters are gonna choose Tory candidates? Most Lib-Dems hate the Tories as much as you do.
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Have you been asleep for 12 months? Walking around with your eyes shut? Polls consistently indicate that lib-dem voters would overwhelmingly case their 2nd pref for their governmental coalition partners. What else do you you think they would do given that anything else is a vote against themselves?

Now, why is AV fairer?
 
fractionMan said:
The more I talk about AV with friends the more I realise how astonishingly naive they are politically. I fully expect some of them to vote libdem again, for progress. :facepalm:
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Innit. If my fb is anything to go by it's the same mugs who were getting excited about nice Nick this time last year who are getting taken for a ride again :facepalm:
 
fractionMan said:
The more I talk about AV with friends the more I realise how astonishingly naive they are politically. I fully expect some of them to vote libdem again, for progress. :facepalm:
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Thing is, the YES campaign was always going to hoover these soppy fuckwits up - it was the don't knows or soft Yesers they had to work on. And they did that by insulting them and calling them tories whilst ignoring the lib-dem neo-liberal extremist elephant in their front room. Possibly the worst run campaign i've ever seen.
 
Maggot said:
Do you really think Lib-Dem voters are gonna choose Tory candidates? Most Lib-Dems hate the Tories as much as you do.
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Do they? I've heard a lot of Lib Dems come out with exactly the same rhetoric as Cameron since they formed the coalition. And frankly considering what the Lib Dems in the cabinet are enabling the Tories to do, I haven't exactly seen much anger from grassroots Lib Dems either - the occasional 'voicing our concerns' letters to newspapers and that's about it. Where's the full-on outcry?
 
Belushi said:
Innit. If my fb is anything to go by it's the same mugs who were getting excited about nice Nick this time last year who are getting taken for a ride again :facepalm:
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I think it's down to being unrepresented and wanting to do something, anything that might change that. It might help is the loudest argument I've heard, it's everywhere and it's based on thin air.

Tbh though, it's the idiots high-fiving each other for being pro-change (and anti-estamblishment LOL) that's doing my head in most.

butchersapron said:
Thing is, the YES campaign was always going to hoover these soppy fuckwits up - it was the don't knows or soft Yesers they had to work on. And they did that by insulting them and calling them tories whilst ignoring the lib-dem neo-liberal extremist elephant in their front room. Possibly the worst run campaign i've ever seen.
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Turns out I've got a lot of soppy fuckwit friends. And I agree, the NO campaign was awful.
 
fractionMan said:
I think it's down to being unrepresented and wanting to do something, anything that might change that. It might help is the loudest argument I've heard, it's everywhere and it's based on thin air.

Tbh though, it's the idiots high-fiving each other for being pro-change (and anti-estamblishment LOL) that's doing my head in most.



Turns out I've got a lot of soppy fuckwit friends.
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I think it's indicative of a wider loss of political legitimacy - which i hope a NO vote will deepen, widen and make permanent.
 
Bob said:
The BNP want you to vote No.

So do the Conservatives.

Draw your own conclusions.
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The conclusion I draw is that your argument is lazy, relying on "tarring with the same brush" for it's effect, rather than on a detailed analysis of why a "no" vote would be wrong.

"If you vote noez, you iz teh Nazis" isn't an argument, it's a playground tantrum.
 
editor said:
What's all this "this is our one chance in a generation" bullshit anyway?
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it may well be our one chance in a generation, but the lib dems and the tories ensured that by cooking up this shitty little referendum. fuck them.
 
ViolentPanda said:
The conclusion I draw is that your argument is lazy, relying on "tarring with the same brush" for it's effect, rather than on a detailed analysis of why a "no" vote would be wrong.

"If you vote noez, you iz teh Nazis" isn't an argument, it's a playground tantrum.
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And it is a piece with the utter failure of the YES campaign.
 
It is surprising how many people on Facebook are all in a froth over voting yes though. And, yes, it does rather remind me of what happened before the election.

:facepalm:
 
Bless them and their little Facebook ways.

Facebook makes people feel important because it enables them to find another 100 people just like them. 100 people seems like a lot of people.
 
A friend of mine forwarded around that yestofairervotes email yesterday, and was right put out when I said I was voting no and put forward a load of reasons as to why I was.

All I got back was some bluster about it being the only chance we've got to change it and that the Lib Dems are behind it so it must have some merit :facepalm: I replied with "Yeah, like you voting Lib Dems has given us an ideological cuts agenda.". Hasn't replied since.
 
butchersapron said:
And it is a piece with the utter failure of the YES campaign.
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Absolutely. A "yes" campaign for AV was always going to be handicapped by the fact that as a mode of electing, it's little different from what we already have, hence the reliance on arguments about how it should be voted for purely on the basis of it being (slightly) different, or because some (a likely minority, it should be emphasised) are "BNP or Tory".

I don't actually know anyone who is voting "no" who is either a Tory or a member or supporter of the BNP. Most of the "nos" I know are people who realise that AV would still mean a Labour MP, a Labour (most of the time) local authority and a parliament in which the three main political parties still held all the cards.
 
fractionMan said:
They're probably pro fairness. I mean who's against fairness and change? The nazis, that's who. :facepalm:
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Did you see the Liberal minister on the 10 o'clock show last week who insisted in only referring to it as "a referendum on fairer votes"?
 
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