Quite right, private industry makes very little surplus. It ought to be called private charity.
Wisconsin governor to end ALL collective bargaining rights for state workers.
- Thread starter Fedayn
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Quite right, private industry makes very little surplus. It ought to be called private charity.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Share holders and directors possibly, but not so much for managers.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Yeah, it does. Everywhere. It might, at a stretch, mean that your workmates are more likely to stick up for you, if you're victimised.
They ought to organise themselves better then. Set up some kind of collective bargaining association.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
ah - gotta love pro-unionists - so out of step with reality.
As you have no valid response I take this as an admission of defeat.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
so reality. Reality is this. Poor little private business (all those big multi-national conglomerates) can't afford to pay what union organised public sector workers get. The massive, err, living wage, and adequate pension, that public sector workers get. Far better than collective bargaining is that we all compete against each other, and take whatever their offering, however shitty.
Then, finally, the world will be a better place.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Nope - just resignation.
I've done this over and over with you Brits - and y'all seem to have a problem with the idea that we are not in the same country and do not have the same way of doing things.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
I was wrong - you can understand.
Also the politics of special privileges & arrogance. And of course, who wouldn't want all those union benefits. But everyone can't work for the gov.The politics of envy
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
no, we just don't believe that Canada is the only country in the world where trade unionists aren't victimised.
Oh, and that we've got ignorant tossers like you in our country too
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
better place for who?
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
They are probably in the minority considering the state of your economy.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Tom, seriously, what's the alternative? Just that everyone's conditions are just as shitty? You know, if they break the public sector unions they're not going to give private sector workers better pay, they're not going to cut their taxes. In fact, employers who don't have to compete to recruit people are going to lower pay.
The alternative, of course, is private sector workers organising to defend/improve their conditions and pay. But, obviously, far easier just to complain that someone else is slightly better off.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
the country where everyone gets worse conditions and pay is a better place for who? How slow ARE you?
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
sadly, they're governing the country.
None at all. They profit from everyone else's misery. Did most private sector workers cause the financial crisis? No, they were just worker bees. Powerful gov unions & powerful slimy corporations behave the same. Go for all they can get & don't give a damn who gets hurt in the process.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
you're a fucking disgrace spring peeper- stop racing everyone to the bottom and pretending the 'ecahnamee' runs like a household budget- you simpleton
People like you are the reason so many Americans have fuck all vacation days, fuck all maternity leave, and need to work two jobs. Why not put some of that famous American can-do spirit to work and wrest some of your labour value back from the people stealing it?
How would removing union rights help the private sector workers one iota? Do you think lower taxes will get passed onto them? Seriously?
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Some of the responses on this thread justify it.
Some of the responses on this thread justify you being ignorant?
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Hardly the same is it Tom? I mean private corporations profit from everyone else's misery by owning and controlling the majority of the economy. Trade unions fund small bureaucracies through trying to improve the pay and conditions of for the most part hard-working people, who do stuff like teach our kids, look after us in hospital, take away our rubbish, maintain our roads etc. Maybe sometimes the bureaucracies they produce aren't perfect, and people within them are selfish, but it's nowhere near the same thing.
Private sector workers with your attitude are just what the people profitting from and creating economic crises want.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Union membership should be mandated by law- closed shop. Or else the risk of my dues going to actions that improve working conditions for tight bastards like TomUS is just too great.
I've all for private sector unions. But private business isn't nearly as amenable to unionization as the gov. Private companies have to constantly innovate to stay competitive. Unions want to freeze everything in place. The economy & technology are changing fast. Gov unions work to advance themselves at the expense of the public. As I said, they behave just like corporations. I see them as pretty much the same.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the ecahnamee
Absolutely. In my state the gov unions recently waged a multi millon dollar ad campaign for higher taxes. They used blatant scare tactics & were thoroughly dishonest & they won. Raising taxes on private business during a severe recession.....insane. They were in effect campaigning for private sector layoffs to protect themselves. Reminded me of the propaganda campaign for the Iraq invasion....very clever....Carl Rove would have been proud of them.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Ooof. Where to begin?
Firstly most successful capitalist companies aren't innovative. They do simple things, in simple ways and sell them to other companies. Companies like Apple, Google etc are the exception, not the rule (and in any case, innovating involves paying people well). Secondly, unions stand in the way of attacks on workers conditions. The easiest way for a company doing simple things to make more profit is to exploit their workers' more. Unions don't stand in the way of workers progressing, they stand in the way of companies taking a short cut to progress, by taking advantage of their workforce.
And like I've said, which part of the public are public sector unions "advancing themselves at the expense of"? You think if they lowered public sector pay, they'd lower your taxes? Would they bollocks.
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