Will you vote for independence?

[brogdale]

Good luck? It's already happened; those figures were from 2012.

Well yeah,....but what I was saying, (obviously not that clearly), is that Carney's message is pretty clear....if you vote 'Yes" you're voting for a sovereign economy massively dependent upon the banking sector. That really would require good fortune; no?

 

[danny la rouge]

Well yeah,....but what I was saying, (obviously not that clearly), is that Carney's message is pretty clear....if you vote 'Yes" you're voting for a sovereign economy massively dependent upon the banking sector. That really would require good fortune; no?

We have that now under the Union, so if we vote No we'll have it anyway.

 

[brogdale]

We have that now under the Union, so if we vote No we'll have it anyway.

I'm no expert, but Carney's figures appear to be an attempt to show that political independence would more than double the degree of dependence on the bankers experienced by the (present) UK as a whole. The message is clear from the City..."you're choice...but do you want to risk it?"

 

[danny la rouge]

http://fivemillionquestions.org/blog/2014/01/29/mark-carney/

Mark Carney - independence 'a multi-faceted judgement for the Scottish people'

 

[danny la rouge]

Also: didn't Bannockburn happen sometime shortly after the events described in Braveheart: and doesn't that continue to hold some significance or meaning in Scotland?

Really should have a different thread for Scottish history, but thought you may be interested: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-25973135
A game that will allow visitors to the new Battle of Bannockburn centre to lead a medieval army in 3D has been unveiled.

 

[danny la rouge]

From the FT:

Even pro-unionists accept that the country has all the ingredients to be a viable nation state

 

[danny la rouge]

I Am Not a Nationalist but I Will Be Voting YES in the Independence Referendum
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ala...endum-voting-yes_b_4433219.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

Alan Wyllie

Creator of PoliticsUK, founding member of the No2BedroomTax Campaign

"The actual independent debate has been a let-down. This is our debate, our referendum, our future. The Yes Campaign and the BetterTogether campaign are to political/politician-centric and both campaigns appear to be fronts for their representative parties.

The closeness of the Yes campaign and the SNP has pushed many left of centre and non-political party aligned activists to create a new movement so that they views are represented in the debate. This new movement is named RIC and they have been a breath of fresh air on the whole debate. Their enthusiasm is infectious, the ideals are based on left of centre ideals that grow from the era of Red Clydeside but they put these ideals forward in a way that is easily accessible and accepted by the general public in Scotland."

 

[butchersapron]

What does 'closeness' mean?

This (RIC) is the counter-elite who will take half the bureaucrats jobs post-independence isn't it? The alternative half of that elite.

 

[danny la rouge]

What does 'closeness' mean?

He means that the Yes Campaign is perceived as basically the referendum wing of the SNP.

 

[butchersapron]

He means that the Yes Campaign is perceived as basically the referendum wing of the SNP.

Cheers, so sort of closed-ness and closesity combined.

 

[danny la rouge]

Cheers, so sort of closed-ness and closesity combined.

Closesity. Is that a word, then?

 

[butchersapron]

Closesity. Is that a word, then?

I made it up. Just now.

 

[danny la rouge]

Good work.

 

[weepiper]

What does 'closeness' mean?

This (RIC) is the counter-elite who will take half the bureaucrats jobs post-independence isn't it? The alternative half of that elite.

That's a bit harsh I reckon butchers, I know a few people involved with the Radical Indy stuff and they're (personally) very far from being the elite. That said I don't think the RIC has achieved all that much in a concrete way yet. A lot of people sitting about in a conference room.

 

[butchersapron]

That's a bit harsh I reckon butchers, I know a few people involved with the Radical Indy stuff and they're (personally) very far from being the elite. That said I don't think the RIC has achieved all that much in a concrete way yet. A lot of people sitting about in a conference room.

I think it probably was too. Do you not think there's an element of an alternative (cultural/bureaucrat) elite just waiting to get their hands on a few things whilst the pro-independence capitalists get to fill their half of the deal through being able to talk directly to big global capital? Two sides of one coin. Or am i being too cynical here?

 

[weepiper]

I think it probably was too. Do you not think there's an element of an alternative (cultural/bureaucrat) elite just waiting to get their hands on a few things whilst the pro-independence capitalists get to fill their half of the deal through being able to talk directly to big global capital? Two sides of one coin. Or am i being too cynical here?

I'm sure there are those kind of people waiting in the wings to get their claws into the good stuff first yes. Not sure how we could avoid that. I don't particularly see them being closely involved with the RIC though, I think that sort is more likely to be an SNP bod.

 

[Fedayn]

I think it probably was too. Do you not think there's an element of an alternative (cultural/bureaucrat) elite just waiting to get their hands on a few things whilst the pro-independence capitalists get to fill their half of the deal through being able to talk directly to big global capital? Two sides of one coin. Or am i being too cynical here?

I'd say there's a few in the RIC tops who would fit that description but there's far far more of that 'cultural'bureaucratic elite within the http://nationalcollective.com/ frankly.

 

[weepiper]

there's far far more of that 'cultural'bureaucratic elite within the http://nationalcollective.com/ frankly.

Ken Loach and Kevin Bridges?

 

[danny la rouge]

I'd say there's a few in the RIC tops who would fit that description but there's far far more of that 'cultural'bureaucratic elite within the http://nationalcollective.com/ frankly.

See also, this post, butchersapron : Stuart Christie is a member of RIC.

 

[butchersapron]

Ta for posts/replies @weepiper/fed/pilch - will come back on it shortly.

 

[butchersapron]

See also, this post, butchersapron : Stuart Christie is a member of RIC.

The boy joined RESPECT as well

 

[danny la rouge]

The boy joined RESPECT as well

Did he? I thought he just voted for them.

 

[danny la rouge]

From 2004:

He voted for the first time in the European elections. "I voted against Tony Blair and for Respect. The furore it caused from anarchists when it appeared on a website! The next thing, I'm getting emails from Italy saying, 'What are you doing voting?' It was because of the war primarily, but also everything else. I can feel the hairs on the back of my neck when I see Blair on television. He has subverted the good name of Scottish radicalism with the people he surrounds himself with."

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2004/aug/23/spain.politics

 

[Fedayn]

Ken Loach and Kevin Bridges?

No, not those who are 'signatories' but those who run it, there's definitely a cultural/nascent national cultural elite within it.

 

[butchersapron]

Did he? I thought he just voted for them.

Correct and i was wrong. GG's hideous fixer who for some reason is SC's mate made him do it.

 

[danny la rouge]

Here's National Collective's latest newsletter, for a flavour of them. Their best-known member is Alasdair Gray.

 

[butchersapron]

Here's National Collective's latest newsletter, for a flavour of them. Their best-known member is Alasdair Gray.

Is there splinteration on the yes-left?

 

[butchersapron]

I'm sure there are those kind of people waiting in the wings to get their claws into the good stuff first yes. Not sure how we could avoid that. I don't particularly see them being closely involved with the RIC though, I think that sort is more likely to be an SNP bod.

See, that sort of thing you'd need to be commenting and involved in - so i get some proper info from you or others involved - i should have hang back rather than just saying that. I see some faces i recognise and my heart sinks. Time is catching up so it's going to have to get political very soon.

edit: just read this back. It's not very clear is it? It was supposed to be be an ask for feedback of RIC if you go there/them.

 

[butchersapron]

Here's National Collective's latest newsletter, for a flavour of them. Their best-known member is Alasdair Gray.

How dare you try and treat us.

 

[danny la rouge]

Is there splinteration on the yes-left?

You could say that. I'd say Radical Indy is the yes-left, and National Collective is the artists for yes.