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Will you vote for independence?

Scottish independence?

  • Yes please

    Votes: 99 56.6%

  • No thanks

    Votes: 57 32.6%

  • Dont know yet

    Votes: 17 9.7%
  • Total voters
    175
gosub said:
Assuming there's a NO vote, and assuming no party has a workable majority after the next Westminster election. What happens if SNP have more MP's than Lib Dems?
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That's actually an interesting question. I don't know enough about how these things work, but there is the potential for the lib dems to be wiped out and Labour win with a tiny majority. Could Labour feasibly go into coalition with the SNP? I guess the answer includes the phrase "west Lothian".
 
Teaboy said:
That's actually an interesting question. I don't know enough about how these things work, but there is the potential for the lib dems to be wiped out and Labour win with a tiny majority. Could Labour feasibly go into coalition with the SNP? I guess the answer includes the phrase "west Lothian".
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I bet it would include the phrase statutory referendum every decade or so as well.
 
gosub said:
Assuming there's a NO vote, and assuming no party has a workable majority after the next Westminster election. What happens if SNP have more MP's than Lib Dems?
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Nothing would happen. If Scotland voted 100% SNP it wouldn't give them any more influence than they already have if the 'main' parties united against them afaik. The Scottish number of MPs is too small to have any real affect, as is the number of Welsh MPs. That's why what we have is NOT a democracy.

If SNP got into bed with Labour it would be political suicide, have you no understanding of what is going on in Scotland??
Labour have cut their own throat up here by getting into bed with the Tories at council level. I suspect the next local elections to be interesting.
 
geminisnake said:
Nothing would happen. If Scotland voted 100% SNP it wouldn't give them any more influence than they already have if the 'main' parties united against them afaik. The Scottish number of MPs is too small to have any real affect, as is the number of Welsh MPs. That's why what we have is NOT a democracy.
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This is no more true for Scotland than any other similarly sized region of the UK that you care to draw a line around.

And the same thing would apply within an independent Scotland - if the Highlands voted 100% for Teuchter's People's Party you could equally say the number of MPs would be too small to have any real effect within Scotland at large. Therefore would that also not be a democracy?
 
There are currently 57 Lib Dem MP's and 59 Scottish constituencies (and some intersection). I wouldn't expect ANY party to win all of them, but without a workable majority smaller party powers are magnified.

You wouldn't get an answer other than "we will be striving to get an overal majority" before the election.


Came about from watching the STV debate with two Scots Nats, who 'explained' to me the the increased powers deal promised this week could be undermined by the UKIP contingent of a next coalition government.
 
redsquirrel said:
Got any ideas about why this age group seems to be less pro-independence than the next one up? Less experience of the Tories in government maybe?
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Most have said they're not interested in politics at all and getting all of the info from what they scratch from the media and what mates say.

Giving them basic info about currency, oil 'borders', and the foreigner stuff seems to make them realise the pish they're being fed.

Can't go too far though as I can see their whole face glaze over.. :D
 
quick query, but if scotland does vote to leave the UK, am I right that you'll still be electing MPs to westminster next May, and if so wtf happens if those MPs are holding the balance of power at Westminster?

Would the rest of UK end up having to hold new elections at the time of the Scottish independence or something? ie would we end up with the next election potentially only being contested for around 10 months in power?

For some reason I'd been assuming it'd all have been sorted by the next general election, but apparently it'd take a year longer than that to sort everything out.
 
free spirit said:
quick query, but if scotland does vote to leave the UK, am I right that you'll still be electing MPs to westminster next May, and if so wtf happens if those MPs are holding the balance of power at Westminster?

Would the rest of UK end up having to hold new elections at the time of the Scottish independence or something? ie would we end up with the next election potentially only being contested for around 10 months in power?

For some reason I'd been assuming it'd all have been sorted by the next general election, but apparently it'd take a year longer than that to sort everything out.
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I would imagine the UK representatives in Scotland would see out their given terms for that election cycle. I also imagine that during this time they'd turn on each other like rabid rats to try and keep some kind of political career.

We're not voting to leave the UK btw, that's negative. ;)
 
DexterTCN said:
I would imagine the UK representatives in Scotland would see out their given terms for that election cycle. I also imagine that during this time they'd turn on each other like rabid rats to try and keep some kind of political career.

We're not voting to leave the UK btw, that's negative. ;)
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hmm, so you're voting to become independent, but not planning to leave the UK in the process?

I think I'll stick to referring to it as you leaving the UK, as that is what is being proposed no matter how the question might be phrased on the referendum.
 
free spirit said:
hmm, so you're voting to become independent, but not planning to leave the UK in the process?

I think I'll stick to referring to it as you leaving the UK, as that is what is being proposed no matter how the question might be phrased on the referendum.
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That would be a UK point of view.

My point of view would be that Scotland should deal with its own affairs. The UK isn't mentioned in the referendum.
 
DexterTCN said:
That would be a UK point of view.

My point of view would be that Scotland should deal with its own affairs. The UK isn't mentioned in the referendum.
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so what are you going to become independent from?

Scotland joined the union with the rest of the UK, and Scotland is now voting on whether or not to become independent from the rest of the UK.

pretty desperate if the independence leaders have to resort to not actually mentioning the UK when asking the question about whether to leave it or not tbh.

unless there's something about that question we're not being told, and Scotland is only actually planning independence from London, or maybe Wales, or Cornwall.
 
I reckon this will be a sticking point in the negotiations. I hope the Scottish negotiation team will only agree to take our fair share of liabilities. Assuming the SNP MPs would resign, we are only obliged to take back four Labour MPs, one Liberal Democrat MP and a tenth of David Mundell.
 
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free spirit
It is a non-issue, regardless of the referendum result if any party wins on the back of Scottish MPs, England would (or should) be on full rage mode. Labour/Tories can't have an austerity plan if cuts/privatisation to England's NHS, education, and policing that relies on Scottish MPs.
 
DairyQueen said:
free spirit
It is a non-issue, if any party wins on the back of Scottish MPs, England would (or should) be on full rage mode. Labour/Tories can't have an austerity plan if cuts/privatisation to England's NHS, education, and policing relies on Scottish MPs.
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not really a non issue at all, quite a major issue for the rest of us if we end up with a government that only has an lifespan of less than a year.

I'm sure we'll cope and all that, but with how close things are looking it could well happen (if scotland does vote to leave).
 
What I am saying is that Scottish MPs cannot swing the House of Commons one way or another, that will never be able to happen even if there is a No vote. The BBC had commentary which basically said that there could never be a Scottish MP as Prime Minister again. Labour would be totally fucked if they had to rely on Scottish MPs to get a domestic policy programme through in England, particularly if they are cutting public services. Just think about it. It cannot realistically work.
 
I That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England shall upon the first day of May next ensuing the date hereof and forever after be United into One Kingdom by the Name of Great Britain And that the Ensigns Armorial of the said United Kingdom be such as Her Majesty shall appoint and the Crosses of St Andrew and St George be conjoined in such manner as Her Majesty shall think fit and used in all Flags Banners Standards and Ensigns both at Sea and Land

II
That the Succession to the Monarchy of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and of the Dominions thereunto belonging after Her Most Sacred Majesty and in default of Issue of Her Majesty be, remain and continue to the Most Excellent Princess Sophia Electoress and Dutchess Dowager of Hanover and the Heirs of Her body being Protestants upon whom the Crown of England is settled by an Act of Parliament made in England in the twelth year of the Reign of His late Majesty King William the Third entituled An Act for the further Limitation of the Crown and better securing the Rights and Liberties of the Subject And that all Papists and persons marrying Papists shall be excluded from and for ever incapable to inherit possess or enjoy the Imperial Crown of Great Britain and the Dominions thereunto belonging or any part thereof And in every such case the Crown and Government shall from time to time descend to and be enjoyed by such person being a Protestant as should have inherited and enjoyed the same in case such Papists or person marrying a Papist was naturally dead according to the provision for the Descent of the Crown of England made by another Act of Parliament in England in the first year of the Reign of their late Majesties King William and Queen Mary entituled An Act declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and settling the Succession of the Crown

III That the United Kingdom of Great Britain be Represented by one and the same Parliament to be stiled the Parliament of Great Britain
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I suppose Scotland doesn't necessarily have to leave the UK to gain independence if it's retaining the queen as head of state, it just needs to chance clause 3 of the Union with England Act 1707 to allow for a Scottish Parliament to govern Scotland on behalf of the Queen or something like that.

Has this been clarified somewhere, ie what exactly a vote for independence would mean in relation to the original Union act, if it would be repealed entirely, or just amended?
 
DairyQueen said:
What I am saying is that Scottish MPs cannot swing the House of Commons one way or another, that will never be able to happen even if there is a No vote. The BBC had commentary which basically said that there could never be a Scottish MP as Prime Minister again. Labour would be totally fucked if they had to rely on Scottish MPs to get a domestic policy programme through in England, particularly if they are cutting public services. Just think about it. It cannot realistically work.
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erm, so if Labour won the next election by a slender majority, which was reliant on Scottish MPs, are you saying they'd somehow not form the government?
 
DairyQueen said:
I can't see how it would work.
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well that's kinda my point, it could end up being a right mess.

It could easily happen - eg current predictions here are for a Labour majority of 40 at the next election, and Labour won 41 seats in Scotland at the last election, so the Scottish labour seats could easily swing the balance at this coming election.

possibly a discussion for a different thread though.
 
Your point was about the event of independence. I am not sure that there would be these kinds of long-term implications if there is a yes vote.
 
Yep, I just looked for it, and it is indeed Polly Toynbee's grand pronouncement, on "Sunday Politics" BBC whatever it is, Sunday 13th April this year.

 
Ooh, that's clever: I thought it would appear simply showing the link for clicking if one chose to.

See? I haz learned something today. :D
 
free spirit said:
well that's kinda my point, it could end up being a right mess.

It could easily happen - eg current predictions here are for a Labour majority of 40 at the next election, and Labour won 41 seats in Scotland at the last election, so the Scottish labour seats could easily swing the balance at this coming election.

possibly a discussion for a different thread though.
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The would govern until Scotland became independent the next year and then they would no longer have a majority so a vote of NC followed by a new GE.
 
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