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Wikileaks - It's time to open the archives

kyser_soze said:
It's not 'his' work tho, is it? Wikileaks is a collaborative group spread over many countries, and most of the people who work for it do so without looking to turn themselves into a martyr.

The man's a narcissistic twat IMO, and his comments about those Swedish women 'getting in a tizzy' is a pretty good demonstration of his attitudes thereof.
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From what I've been able to gather, he isn't the "founder" of Wikileaks. The original work came from pro-democracy Chinese protesters.

What he did was to make it more visible. Sometimes narcissistic twats are useful.

Still, I hold by my original assessment that he's one creepy dude.
 
Can people please stop referring to it like he's the only person invovled with wikileaks, or that he's somehow 'in charge' of it.

He's not, and he's not.
 
Seeing as he isn't the be all and end all of Wikileaks does anyone have any idea what the others involved in the organisation think about him and his media meddling? Telling people he doesn't want them to publish 'his' stuff etc, surely everyone else who's committed themselves to the cause can't be taking that well can they..?
 
kyser_soze said:
Can people please stop referring to it like he's the only person invovled with wikileaks, or that he's somehow 'in charge' of it.

He's not, and he's not.
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If people keep talking about him by association they're making sure he looks like he is in charge. Anyone who backs what wikileaks does should cease mentioning him really...
 
kyser_soze said:
Can people please stop referring to it like he's the only person invovled with wikileaks, or that he's somehow 'in charge' of it.

He's not, and he's not.
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Of course he isnt the only person involved, people rarely suggest such a thing.

As for whether he is in charge, in many ways there is ample evidence that he has a large amount of power within the organisation and in some senses can be seen as being 'in charge'.

Im very glad for all the leaks and of course some of the negative stuff about him is for dodgy motives, but I feel no desire whatsoever to give this man a special pass, to overlook his flaws and errors, just because wikileaks did some good.

We can learn something about the world from the wikileaks, but we can also learn something about the ego and its failings by looking at people like Assange. To quote the Vanity fair article
“I’m busy, there are two wars I have to end.”
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I mean seriously, look at some of he promising revolutions that happened only for the end result to turn out horrific. The reasons for these failings are complex and many, but some of them are definately down to human ego and the terrible things that can occur when one person decides they are the great saviour and beyond reproach.
 
Kid_Eternity said:
If people keep talking about him by association they're making sure he looks like he is in charge. Anyone who backs what wikileaks does should cease mentioning him really...
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Bollocks. Assange made this project all about him, he exerts control over the material and deserves what he gets as a result.

Those who care aout the future of leaks should almost certainly look to other models which are setup in a way that limits the potential for some of these Assange wikileaks mistakes to happen in future. Ive said before that the wiki part of wikileaks name completely fails to fit the way they operate these days, and as such they are far more about the old ways of doing things than the decentralised de-egotized possibilities that the net theoretically offers.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
Still, I hold by my original assessment that he's one creepy dude.
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agreed, but so what? The only thing that matters to me is; Is it a good thing that the US Embassy leaks have come about, and that wikileaks exists to such a purpose?
seems to me the answer to both is 'yes', emphatically so.
 
Streathamite said:
agreed, but so what? The only thing that matters to me is; Is it a good thing that the US Embassy leaks have come about, and that wikileaks exists to such a purpose?
seems to me the answer to both is 'yes', emphatically so.
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Why, oh, why, don't people read an entire post?

I did give him credit for making Wikileaks more visible, even if he isn't the founder of Wikileaks (as many newspapers claim).
 
I did read it - I just thought the 'aside point' was daft, and that it was worth reinforcing that Assange is the ultimate in 'useful idiots'
 
Streathamite said:
I did read it - I just thought the 'aside point' was daft, and that it was worth reinforcing that Assange is the ultimate in 'useful idiots'
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I don't believe it's daft to point out the he's lacking in the basic personability to be a good frontman. In the short-term people can get caught up in the "cool factor", but he's probably a liability in the long-term.
 
elbows said:
Im very glad for all the leaks and of course some of the negative stuff about him is for dodgy motives, but I feel no desire whatsoever to give this man a special pass, to overlook his flaws and errors, just because wikileaks did some good.
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Know him well, do you? :rolleyes:
 
Citizen66 said:
Know him well, do you? :rolleyes:
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If you are in the public sphere then people are going to form opinions about you, regardless of whether they actually know the person. So Im just treating Assange like I would treat anyone else who becomes known, I cannot help but form an opinion. Given that there are multiple motives for people to smear him these days, I have tried to form a lot of my opinion from things he has said himself. Im quite interested in leaks and so I also have opinions about what an organisation involved in the leaks business should do, how it should be structured, how it should release stuff. Wikileaks has some inspirational characteristics but also some flaws and I highly doubt that any reasons people come up with as to why I should not talk about him or wikileaks this way will utterly fail to sway me.

I am actually far more interested in the leaks themselves but for some reason its proven hard to have many lively discussions about many of the leaks on forums such as this one, so Im drawn to talk about Assange & co instead. But I really spend far more time reading the leaks than worrying about Assanges personality or the fate of wikileaks.
 
And speaking of the leaks themselves, there has been precious little released this week, and the total amount released is still a very small fraction of the entire collection.
 
elbows said:
And speaking of the leaks themselves, there has been precious little released this week, and the total amount released is still a very small fraction of the entire collection.
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That's because no-one can see them as they're all behind the Times paywall after JA fell out with the Gruaniad.
 
kyser_soze said:
That's because no-one can see them as they're all behind the Times paywall after JA fell out with the Gruaniad.
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Err, wikileaks release stuff themselves on their own site and there has been very little of that this week, at least last time I checked.

Also I think the story about the Guardian stuff was actually referring to events that happened quite some time ago, before the cables started being released by any media agencies, but maybe there has been a new falling out that I dont know about?
 
elbows said:
Err, wikileaks release stuff themselves on their own site and there has been very little of that this week, at least last time I checked.

Also I think the story about the Guardian stuff was actually referring to events that happened quite some time ago, before the cables started being released by any media agencies, but maybe there has been a new falling out that I dont know about?
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JA got into a strop when the Gruan published the (leaked) contents of his sexual misconduct charges.
 
kyser_soze said:
JA got into a strop when the Gruan published the (leaked) contents of his sexual misconduct charges.
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that doesnt make any difference to the reporting tho, he'd already handed them over to the G, so they are in their hands now
 
belboid said:
that doesnt make any difference to the reporting tho, he'd already handed them over to the G, so they are in their hands now
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Vanity Fair says a disgruntled WikiLeaks volunteer gave the Guardian a second copy, so they have them independent of their agreement with Assange:

On the afternoon of November 1, 2010, Julian Assange, the Australian-born founder of WikiLeaks.org, marched with his lawyer into the London office of Alan Rusbridger, the editor of The Guardian. Assange was pallid and sweaty, his thin frame racked by a cough that had been plaguing him for weeks. He was also angry, and his message was simple: he would sue the newspaper if it went ahead and published stories based on the quarter of a million documents that he had handed over to The Guardian just three months earlier.
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Going back to the rape accusations: it looks as though they're proven to be bollocks...
As we can see, Anna Ardin is doing all she can to hide her tweets. Tweets that indicate Julian Assange is actually innocent of at least the charge of 'molestation' that he's been accused of. It looks like Anna Ardin is doing all she can to get Julian Assange convicted. By deleting and denying acquitting circumstances, she's perhaps making herself guilty of false accusation.
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http://rixstep.com/1/20101001,01.shtml
 
From the link it looks like Anna Ardin's deliberately deleting tweets that show her having a fine old time in the company of Assange and friends in the days after the alleged rape.

http://rixstep.com/1/20101001,01.shtml


On Saturday 14 August at 14:00 she wrote the following on her Twitter account.

'Julian wants to go to a crayfish party, anyone have a couple of available seats tonight or tomorrow? #fb'

Early on the morning of Sunday 15 August (02:00) she writes again at Twitter.

'Sitting outdoors at 02:00 and hardly freezing with the world's coolest smartest people, it's amazing! #fb'

----

Yet 5 days later she discovers that Assange had slept with another woman...

----

When Anna realises that Julian's also had consensual sex with this woman, something happens.

The two women who are both christians and are connected to the Brotherhood Movement and were at the seminar at the Brotherhood Movement realise immediately that Julian doesn't have any long term serious intentions with them.

They decide after discussing the matter to file complaints against Julian Assange for sexual molestation.

(sorry if all this has been posted before, not seen it myself)
 
No leaks on the wikileaks site since the 5th. However the Gazprom ones that were released on the 5th are quite interesting, especially when discussing Gazproms social responsibilities and not caring enough about shareholder value, what an outrage ;)

Theres an interesting memo showing Brazil resisting US attempts to define Chavez as a threat back in 2005, which also features mention of Evo Morales.
 
From Assange today at some hearing:
Our work with WikiLeaks continues unabated and we are stepping up our publishing of materials related to cablegate
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Still nothing published on their site since the 5th so they have quite a way to step up!
 
pk said:
They decide after discussing the matter to file complaints against Julian Assange for sexual molestation.
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No, after going to the police to force Assange to have an HIV test the police took up the matter and decided to press charges.
 
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