Wikileaks - It's time to open the archives

[elbows]

Loads more interesting stuff around at the moment, will take me a while to digest all the China-North Korea ones.

Oh Syria.....

6. (S) Sharaa's behavior in Kuwait, Muasher said, simply underscores Syria's "stark ignorance" of the U.S. and the rest of the outside world. Bashar al-Asad had told King Abdullah on his recent visit to Damascus that he was not worried about who would win the U.S. presidential elections, since even a Democrat could choose to keep on the senior civilian officials in the current administration. Similarly, Sharaa had told the Jordanians accompanying the King a tabloid-like story that showed how out of touch with reality he is: Sharaa told the group that British Prince Charles would soon be implicated in a Scottish judicial investigation into Princess Diana's death, and was consequently planning a trip to Iraq and Iran "to seek the support of the Muslim world." "They just don't get it," Muasher lamented.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/14100

Duh!

 

[grit]

I wonder if Bradly Manning worked at these banks too

The transscript linked from that big business story is very interesting. Looks like banks are next on his hit list.

 

[Kanda]

Looks like banks are next on his hit list.

Erm... it says that right at the top of the article....

Early next year, Julian Assange says, a major American bank will suddenly find itself turned inside out.

 

[Streathamite]

Impossible. Any records for that will have been tightly controlled at the time and destroyed, most likely in the WTC7 (the reason it was blown up). They would never have been connected up to the internet or the rest of the military computers.

so the fact there's no evidence proves they must have done it. Err, yeah, right, if you say so...

 

[detective-boy]

Have a read of this fantastic article: Comment: The hypocrisy of the media attack on Wikileaks

I'm not at all sure that I think the world is a better / safer place with an entirely unaccountable random like Assange basically putting out anything he can get his hands on. I agree that a lot of the stuff (a) needn't be secret in the first place or (b) is only kept secret to avoid embarassment or to cover up wrongdoing and there is no reason why that shouldn't be in the public domain ... but is simply fuckwitted to claim that there is never a place for any secrecy within a democracy or in relation to it's relations with other nations, etc.

To take a single example, the revelations about the views of (some) Chinese officials about their unofficial / informal view of the situation in Korea are extremely unlikely to help resolve what is a potentially very dangerous situation for a whole swathe of the world's population.

I may not wholly trust politicians, etc. ... but at least I know something of who they are and what they are about and I know that if we tire of them we can remove them. That is simply not the case with Assange.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'm not at all sure that I think the world is a better / safer place with an entirely unaccountable random like Assange basically putting out anything he can get his hands on. I agree that a lot of the stuff (a) needn't be secret in the first place or (b) is only kept secret to avoid embarassment or to cover up wrongdoing and there is no reason why that shouldn't be in the public domain ... but is simply fuckwitted to claim that there is never a place for any secrecy within a democracy or in relation to it's relations with other nations, etc.

To take a single example, the revelations about the views of (some) Chinese officials about their unofficial / informal view of the situation in Korea are extremely unlikely to help resolve what is a potentially very dangerous situation for a whole swathe of the world's population.

I may not wholly trust politicians, etc. ... but at least I know something of who they are and what they are about and I know that if we tire of them we can remove them. That is simply not the case with Assange.

The article is quite clear that at times there is a need for secrecy, Prince Harry going to Afghanistan was the example used. But so far nothing leaked has actually done more than embarrassingly reveal what people have been saying to each other. If you don't want it reveleaved, don't say/write it.

 

[kyser_soze]

My main beeef with Assange is that he's a pretty mercurial, untransparent person who has demonstrated lots of times that the kind of transparency he wants to force on others he's less happy being applied to his own life.

I'm still at a loss as to the fuss TBH. There's some fun stuff, some eyebrow-raising stuff, some 'Yah boo I was right you were wrong' stuff (for some people I guess, anyway) but mostly it's dull stuff, with some genuinely good analysis.

 

[Crispy]

Assange isn't a national government.

 

[butchersapron]

My main beeef with Assange is that he's a pretty mercurial, untransparent person who has demonstrated lots of times that the kind of transparency he wants to force on others he's less happy being applied to his own life.

I'm still at a loss as to the fuss TBH. There's some fun stuff, some eyebrow-raising stuff, some 'Yah boo I was right you were wrong' stuff (for some people I guess, anyway) but mostly it's dull stuff, with some genuinely good analysis.

The BBC actually said govts might fall as this started.

 

[kyser_soze]

Yeah, so did lots of media outlets who didn't get sent the details by Wikileaks Altho it's a fine piece of hyperbole.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

The article is quite clear that at times there is a need for secrecy, Prince Harry going to Afghanistan was the example used. But so far nothing leaked has actually done more than embarrassingly reveal what people have been saying to each other. If you don't want it reveleaved, don't say/write it.

There'd be no need for secrecy if the monarchy didn't exist or if we hadn't invaded Afghanistan...

 

[Kid_Eternity]

My main beeef with Assange is that he's a pretty mercurial, untransparent person who has demonstrated lots of times that the kind of transparency he wants to force on others he's less happy being applied to his own life.

I'm still at a loss as to the fuss TBH. There's some fun stuff, some eyebrow-raising stuff, some 'Yah boo I was right you were wrong' stuff (for some people I guess, anyway) but mostly it's dull stuff, with some genuinely good analysis.

I don't have any problem with that, look at the outcomes, his way of doing things is successful and needed so all power to him.

 

[elbows]

There'd be no need for secrecy if the monarchy didn't exist or if we hadn't invaded Afghanistan...

Not really true. The nature of international relations rather demands some secrecy, which in my book is a bad thing. Id rather have a world that worked in a very different way, where much secrecy was not necessary, but I know this would involve a radically different way of life, business, politics, etc. Information has always been power, long before computers or advanced Bureaucratic systems. Only as part of a wider struggle to reform the world so that power is evenly distributed could we hope for really significant change.

 

[elbows]

I'm still at a loss as to the fuss TBH. There's some fun stuff, some eyebrow-raising stuff, some 'Yah boo I was right you were wrong' stuff (for some people I guess, anyway) but mostly it's dull stuff, with some genuinely good analysis.

Its quite understandable why the media and certain countries would fuss about this stuff though. Good analysis may well be dull to many, which is understandable, but its very exciting to some. I dont really get the point about 'yaa boo I was right you were wrong', surely being able to demonstrate the reality of how the world is shaped is rather important. Even if it does at times lead people to feel justified or smug, it goes well beyond that, its preferable to infinite arguments that have no grounds to progress due to a lack of evidence.

 

[elbows]

Ha earlier I had been amused by the Saudi sugestion of implanting chips in detainees to track them, and the nature of the response their suggestion got. Aside from the amusement factor, it rather demonstrated the attitude that such regimes have, not that this is surpirising or at odds with what we already assumed about them, but still useful to have it confirmed.

Well, apparently Kuwaits suggestion for how to deal with the Guantanamo detainees problem was even cruder than Saudi Arabia's:

"You know better than I that we cannot deal with these people. I can't detain them ... If they are rotten, they are rotten and the best thing to do is get rid of them. You picked them up in Afghanistan; you should drop them off in Afghanistan, in the middle of the war zone."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/30/wikileaks-cables-us-guantanamo-moazzam-begg

 

[Combustible]

Some rather bizarre advice from 1979 about how to negotiate with Iranians

http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/1979/08/79TEHRAN8980.html

COUPLED WITH THESE PSYCHOLOGICAL LIMITATIONS IS A
GENERAL INCOMPREHENSION OF CASUALITY. ISLAM, WITH ITS
EMPHASIS ON THE OMNIPOTENCE OF GOD, APPEARS TO ACCOUNT
AT LEAST IN MAJOR PART FOR THIS PHENOMENON. SOMEWHAT
SURPRISINGLY, EVEN THOSE IRANIANS EDUCATED IN THE
WESTERN STYLE AND PERHAPS WITH LONG EXPERIENCE OUTSIDE
IRAN ITSELF FREQUENTLY HAVE DIFFICULTY GRASPING THE
INTER-RELATIONSHIP OF EVENTS. WITNESS A YAZDI RESISTING
THE IDEA THAT IRANIAN BEHAVIOR HAS CONSEQUENCES ON THE
PERCEPTION OF IRAN IN THE U.S. OR THAT THIS PERCEPTION
IS SOMEHOW RELATED TO AMERICAN POLICIES REGARDING
IRAN. THIS SAME QUALITY ALSO HELPS EXPLAIN PERSIAN
AVERSION TO ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONE'S OWN
ACTIONS. THE DEUS EX MACHINA IS ALWAYS AT WORK.

 

[teqniq]

Not really true. The nature of international relations rather demands some secrecy, which in my book is a bad thing. Id rather have a world that worked in a very different way, where much secrecy was not necessary, but I know this would involve a radically different way of life, business, politics, etc. Information has always been power, long before computers or advanced Bureaucratic systems. Only as part of a wider struggle to reform the world so that power is evenly distributed could we hope for really significant change.

Seconded.

 

[OneStrike]

With regards to Assenge perhaps being a little hypocritical in not allowing the same transparency to himself as he demands of others, i understand the thought but disagree that he should allow it. The likes of Palin (i know) are demanding that he be treated by Obama as a terrorist. Given that Obama has sanctioned the assasination US citizen Anwar al-Awlaki (without being processed through the courts), you can see why, if i was Assenge, i wouldn't be doing the media circuit.

Palin linked to a post on twitter including this statement this afternoon:

"Why can't we act forcefully against WikiLeaks? Why can't we use our various assets to harass, snatch or neutralize Julian Assange and his collaborators, wherever they are? Why can't we disrupt and destroy WikiLeaks in both cyberspace and physical space, to the extent possible? Why can't we warn others of repercussions from assisting this criminal enterprise hostile to the United States?"

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/whack-wikileaks_520462.html

http://twitter.com/sarahpalinusa

 

[weltweit]

I thought it was interesting how much concern there is / was about nuclear materials in Pakistan.

Of course that is only to be expected, it is hardly a scoop!

 

[DexterTCN]

(tweet by Palin) "Why can't we act forcefully against WikiLeaks? Why can't we use our various assets to harass, snatch or neutralize Julian Assange and his collaborators, wherever they are? Why can't we disrupt and destroy WikiLeaks in both cyberspace and physical space, to the extent possible? Why can't we warn others of repercussions from assisting this criminal enterprise hostile to the United States?"

Jesus fucking Christ. Isn't she meant to be against big government? Or in this case, fascism.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Guardian reporting that the best leaks are yet to come...has anyone delved into them? I get the impression that the media are going on about Prince Andrew at the expense of better stuff...? Ive really not had chance to look mind...

 

[OneStrike]

Jesus fucking Christ. Isn't she meant to be against big government? Or in this case, fascism.

She linked to that quote i posted, in agreement, so not her words per se but words that she agreed with. Crazy/Scary eh! I don't think she really knows what she believes in, but Protecting America at all costs is probably quite high on the list, small government or not. You can't blame her when she can see Russia from her back garden and with allies like NK (recent quotes from her).



...Looking forward to the banking revelations, hoping for some nod and a wink agreements with the government.

 

[DexterTCN]

Well we're off-topic but I don't like her, she's a female Dubya.

 

[DexterTCN]

Anyway..gorgeous george on talksport radio is going to have the deputy (I think) editor of grauniad and mark steel on tonight discussing the leaks. On now.

 

[moochedit]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/195947

US embassy cables: Conservative-Lib Dem coalition 'unlikely

Lamb said that Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg and Tory chief David Cameron do not get along personally. Lamb said Clegg thinks Cameron is dismissive of him and Clegg refused an "aggressive" invitation to dine at Cameron's house.

 

[DexterTCN]

http://www.interpol.int/public/data/wanted/notices/data/2010/86/2010_52486.asp

Categories of Offences: SEX CRIMES

 

[elbows]

Guardian reporting that the best leaks are yet to come...has anyone delved into them? I get the impression that the media are going on about Prince Andrew at the expense of better stuff...? Ive really not had chance to look mind...

Well its not only the likes of the Guardian that are staggering the releases, wikileaks is too. So we cant really delve into the detail ahead of the newspapers. We can see a list of document origins & titles, but its not enough to work out exactly what else may be in store in the future.

 

[dylans]

Impossible. Any records for that will have been tightly controlled at the time and destroyed, most likely in the WTC7 (the reason it was blown up). They would never have been connected up to the internet or the rest of the military computers.

Wow. page 2062 paragraph 4

Of course we blew up the twin towers and blamed Bin Laden" George Bush

Wow. Jazz was right.!!

(waits for Jazz to go and check)

 

[xes]

http://www.interpol.int/public/data/wanted/notices/data/2010/86/2010_52486.asp

the smear continues. Funny how it all went quiet after this one first came out, and now he's released another load of material they're after him again. Fucking transparent cunts. IIRC the girls who "accused him" said they were told to do so.

 

[Yossarian]

the smear continues. Funny how it all went quiet after this one first came out, and now he's released another load of material they're after him again. Fucking transparent cunts. IIRC the girls who "accused him" said they were told to do so.

I've never read anything about the accusers saying they were told do to so, although I've read a reasonably convincing explanation of why Assange's "attempt to spin his creepy romancing of two Swedish women into a Pentagon smear campaign" suggests WikiLeaks should find a new figurehead.

http://gawker.com/5623846/are-wikileaks-activists-finally-realizing-their-founder-is-a-megalomaniac