Why Labour are Scum

[Lo Siento.]

All these things were enacted by this government. Not labour.

Arguing that the tories took apart the NHS on a lie because of Labour is spurious nonsense.

Erm, you really don't remember the Blair years, do you?

 

[DairyQueen]

Exactly. I'm moderate enough to be swayed by Labour policy if it goes anywhere near socialist territory. They can't even offer the most basic things to the soft-left electorate. Put the utilities in public hands? NO. Renationalise a few choo-choos? NO. Promise to make sure poor people are provided with a decent basic income and stuck up for in the media? NO.

I'm so mild I bet they could buy me off by just doing the above if it got the Tories out, but today's Labour can't do even the most gentle bit of socialism. They're cunts. They're shit. They stand for nothing. What is Labour party policy? It's not even coherent. It's an amorphous blob of fear and cowardice.

...and the waffle. Don't forget the waffle.

 

[DotCommunist]

Id' rather give my vote to a party that's at least promising to repeal the Bedroom Tax and the Health and Social Care bill. They might not. At least there's a chance, which is more than you'll get from the tories who will just make things even worse.

they promised to look after the NHS and rescind the JSA.

in 15 years they began the NHS sell off and went even harsher on claimants for dole

 

[J Ed]

I feel like the Iraq War and its ever ongoing and mounting consequences haven't been mentioned enough yet.

Also Afghanistan and Serbia.

 

[Pickman's model]

do you remember labour governments?
now don't misunderstand us, vote labour if you want, we can't stop you, but...
do you remember labour governments?
do you remember notting hill?
do you remember lewisham?
do you remember southall and the murder of blair peach?
go ahead, vote labour if you have to, but...
do you remember grunwicks?
do you remember the winter of discontent?
do you think if kinnock was in power during the miners' strike he would have treated them any different than the tories did?
do you think if labour were in power their reaction to the urban uprisings would have been any different from the police?
do you think truncheons and plastic bullets will taste nicer under a labour government?
do you really believe that the capitalist elite will allow themselves to be peacefully voted out of existence by some poxy labour party, just like that without a fight?
do you seriously think that the nonsense of parliament has any real relevance to the class war going on every day in the streets and factories?
do you think our whole lives should be reduced to the misery of hanging around waiting for the next election, just so we can vote labour, hoping in vain it will change something? IT WILL CHANGE NOTHING!!

parties, vanguards and leaderships can't give us what we need, they only represent their own class interests. the only time we really win anything is when we fight for it ourselves, with our own hands through DIRECT ACTION/MASS RESISTANCE/WORKERS CONTROL


https://libcom.org/files/vote-labour-TVA.pdf

 

[Pickman's model]

Id' rather give my vote to a party that's at least promising to repeal the Bedroom Tax and the Health and Social Care bill. They might not. At least there's a chance, which is more than you'll get from the tories who will just make things even worse.

there's one born every minute

 

[Favelado]

"There's a 50% chance they might repeal evil." My kind of party.

 

[DairyQueen]

Awesome Wells

Tthere is an argument for 'anyone but the Tories' in a very small percentage of seats, but you shouldn't diminish that by saying it is a vote for Labour. I know they need foot soldiers to fight the Tories, but it is just too much.

 

[Awesome Wells]

What constituency do you live in btw? In about 550 of them this debate is academic anyway

as i've said before; if you live ina safe seat and your vote will have no difference then that's a different matter. people aren't to be blamed for things beyond their control, obv.

 

[Pickman's model]

"There's a 50% chance they might repeal evil." My kind of party.

there's a 100% chance they'd pass evil

 

[Awesome Wells]

... and the 'Awesome Wells' paradox if you don't vote for a cunt you'll get an even bigger one.

So, not really a paradox, just a lack of any decent alternative.

 

[Awesome Wells]

"There's a 50% chance they might repeal evil." My kind of party.

is a fatal misrepresentation of the argument.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Awesome Wells

Tthere is an argument for 'anyone but the Tories' in a very small percentage of seats, but you shouldn't diminish that by saying it is a vote for Labour. I know they need foot soldiers to fight the Tories, but it is just too much.

then by all means return a tory majority.

 

[Favelado]

is a fatal misrepresentation of the argument.

It was. That's what I was going for there.

 

[DairyQueen]

So, not really a paradox, just a lack of any decent alternative.

Stop calling it an alternative. It's not.

 

[Favelado]

then by all means return a tory majority.

There is not going to be a Tory majority. It's nigh on impossible.

 

[Lo Siento.]

as i've said before; if you live ina safe seat and your vote will have no difference then that's a different matter. people aren't to be blamed for things beyond their control, obv.

So that's basically 90% of the population then.

 

[DairyQueen]

then by all means return a tory majority.

So they want socialists to win them elections, and then piss all over them. It ain't going to happen. Old New Labour. It's fucking nuts.

 

[shifting gears]

But by not voting you are actively voting them in. That's the problem. The system doesn't reognise a no vote. At best you have ahung parliament which is no better.

"The system" is so fucking entrenched that people can't see it for the worthless pseudo-democracy it is

When enough people realise what's been staring them in the face for years... Things will get interesting

 

[J Ed]

"The system" is so fucking entrenched that people can't see it for the worthless pseudo-democracy it is

When enough people realise what's been staring them in the face for years... Things will get interesting

Yes, things like the Arab Spring, the rise of Podemos in Spain (from not existing 4 months ago to being polled as the official opposition next year) and even more reactionary events like the rise of far-right Ukrainian nationalism shows just how much more fluid this stuff is than we realise. Which makes voting for Tories in red ties even more short sighted and ignorant.

 

[Favelado]

Yes, things like the Arab Spring, the rise of Podemos in Spain (from not existing 4 months ago to being polled as the official opposition next year) and even more reactionary events like the rise of far-right Ukrainian nationalism shows just how much more fluid this stuff is than we realise. Which makes voting for Tories in red ties even more short sighted and ignorant.

The Guardian are going to write so many articles about Podemos no-one will like them for long. Owen Jones in a Podemos t-shirt in February 2015 will be the last straw.

 

[DairyQueen]

The Guardian are going to write so many articles about Podemos no-one will like them for long. Owen Jones in a Podemos t-shirt in February 2015 will be the last straw.

Yup, his gap year will ruin everything.

 

[Lo Siento.]

The Guardian are going to write so many articles about Podemos no-one will like them for long. Owen Jones in a Podemos t-shirt in February 2015 will be the last straw.

Plus Pablito is a bit of a Spanish Owen Jones himself...

 

[J Ed]

Plus Pablito is a bit of a Spanish Owen Jones himself...

Jaume d'Urgell is the Spanish Owen Jones, surely?

 

[Kalfindin]

No. What I'm saying is prior to investing my time in joining and reclaiming the Labour Party, can you give me a single example of such a strategy actually being successful in turning a neo-liberal party "back" to socialism. The alternative here is me not wasting my time.

Im not aware its ever been tried,

There is not going to be a Tory majority. It's nigh on impossible.

If people followed advice of posters we would have a permanent Tory govt.

That's how irrational their politics are.

 

[Awesome Wells]

So that's basically 90% of the population then.

My point stands

 

[Awesome Wells]

There is not going to be a Tory majority. It's nigh on impossible.

I have no desire to second guess the outcome

 

[Kalfindin]

Yes, things like the Arab Spring, the rise of Podemos in Spain (from not existing 4 months ago to being polled as the official opposition next year) and even more reactionary events like the rise of far-right Ukrainian nationalism shows just how much more fluid this stuff is than we realise. Which makes voting for Tories in red ties even more short sighted and ignorant.

You are seriously comparing the political possibilities in Essex and Tunbridge wells with the Arab spring ?

Ha, ha mentalist

 

[Favelado]

If people followed advice of posters we would have a permanent Tory govt.

Of course we wouldn't and you know it you naughty sock puppet.

 

[Awesome Wells]

they promised to look after the NHS and rescind the JSA.

in 15 years they began the NHS sell off and went even harsher on claimants for dole

I don't deny any of this and have referenced labour's attitude toward benefits many times before.

But they were not as harsh in13 years as this government had been in 4. I dread to think what will happen if they are given a clear mandate. One thing they will do will be to reduce JSA for long term claimants by a cumulative10% each year.