Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Why does society not trust women?

Beats & Pieces said:
Easy to criticize a man rather than look to the dynamics at play within the constructed box, eh? Especially when that critique comes from other women - notably the non-white / middle class type. You might know them as WOC. Or rather, you know best.
Click to expand...
Nope. No idea what you're talking about. If I know best then I can assure you we're both clueless.
 
8ball said:
It's not just down to being male and middle aged. It's being male, middle aged, in the right place at the right time and most importantly being a certain kind of person.

That kind of person also comes in a female body from time to time (if less often). I'm not convinced that enabling them in a similar manner would make the world greatly better,
Click to expand...
Yes and your point is what? Some women have succeeded in the male dominated world of CEO or banking and finance? I was talking about the system, the culture, the patriarchy. For women to get on in that world they have to play by the patriarchal rules.
Our macho culture promotes, enables and over rewards men (and as I said before it is overwhelmingly men) to carry on in a risk taking selfish way.
 
I'm not sure society trusts men that much either. Let's face it...they are pretty much responsible for every frigging war and resulting horrors.


Also....society itself needs to sharpen up somewhat....and open it's eyes.
No society is entirely trustworthy until everything is transparent....and we have still a long way to go to get to that stage.
 
friendofdorothy said:
Yes and your point is what? Some women have succeeded in the male dominated world of CEO or banking and finance? I was talking about the system, the culture, the patriarchy. For women to get on in that world they have to play by the patriarchal rules.
Our macho culture promotes, enables and over rewards men (and as I said before it is overwhelmingly men) to carry on in a risk taking selfish way.
Click to expand...

This is just meaningless fluff.
 
cheesethief said:
This is sadly still very true, although I wonder whether there's a slight breeze of change blowing through collective psyches, mainly due to the persistent instances of corporate malfeasance. A recent example would be the collapse of Carillion - the usual array of identikit white middle aged men were on display at the commons select committee enquiry into the collapse. How many people watching that thought to themselves "There's a bunch of highly competent professionals who clearly deserved to be on the board of directors" ? I would imagine most people thought "Yet another bunch of incompetent, self-serving white middle aged business wankers".
Click to expand...
You just contradicted yourself by agreeing with a post saying they are seen as competent and then saying that they are perceived as the opposite.

Directors are great at networking. Or should I say their families have been great at networking for a long long time?
That the only assumption I make. They got where they were for who they know not what they know.
 
friendofdorothy said:
Very true. Middle aged guys (and it was overwhelmingly guys) are grossly over compensated for their gross incompetence and it is something for which we have all been paying the price.Yet it continues.
Click to expand...
I can't track down the link, but I remember reading one study that came out last year that found that having a quota of women to get into your leadership team didn't result in poor-performing women being overpromoted - rather it pushed out mediocre men who were there by default. Which I think makes sense... unconscious bias being what it is, men at the top will tend to appoint men like themselves if they've been with the business for a while, they get on with them etc. If they have to put a woman in certain role they will have to think properly about who is the best woman for the job, and will, possibly for the first time, think about who is a strong performer rather than just the most 'obvious' (ie, like them) person.
 
Cloo said:
I can't track down the link, but I remember reading one study that came out last year that found that having a quota of women to get into your leadership team didn't result in poor-performing women being overpromoted - rather it pushed out mediocre men who were there by default. Which I think makes sense... unconscious bias being what it is, men at the top will tend to appoint men like themselves if they've been with the business for a while, they get on with them etc. If they have to put a woman in certain role they will have to think properly about who is the best woman for the job, and will, possibly for the first time, think about who is a strong performer rather than just the most 'obvious' (ie, like them) person.
Click to expand...
so the peter principle doesn't become a petra principle? i've seen enough shit managers, both men and women, to suggest to me that the peter principle is gender-blind.

Peter principle - Wikipedia
 
Likely to be so if enough women get there, I suppose! But I guess at the moment the women who get through are likely to have to be extra-strong performers.
 
Cloo said:
Likely to be so if enough women get there, I suppose! But I guess at the moment the women who get through are likely to have to be extra-strong performers.
Click to expand...
in my own experience, which is almost entirely within the public sector, good managers - whether men or women - are very much in the minority. i think it's management itself which diminishes most people in managerial posts, whether men or women. the people who want to go into management are in general the very people who should be refused those posts.
 
Pickman's model said:
in my own experience, which is almost entirely within the public sector, good managers - whether men or women - are very much in the minority. i think it's management itself which diminishes most people in managerial posts, whether men or women. the people who want to go into management are in general the very people who should be refused those posts.
Click to expand...
My experience in the corporate world is that the higher up you go, the higher the prevalence of very confident or very strident people. You can't get that far with doubt, humility and concern for those you work with.

You can go pretty far with just intelligence and hard work. But you reach a ceiling or burnout if you retain human qualities or doubts. To get to the top you need to be ambitious and aggressive first and foremost.
 
Cloo said:
Y'know, the way it often takes a man's testimony for a woman to be believed, for example (as referred to here )?

Obviously, there's patriarchy and all and men siding with one another. But I also think our society carries this idea that women are less honest and 'honourable' than men. Perhaps constructed because women are generally less physically strong than men and over time the idea has formed is that therefore a woman's 'weapon' is lies and manipulation. Like, a man can in theory get up and have a fight with another guy to sort out who's in the right, but a woman 'can't' do that so she has to lie about her enemies and mess with their heads instead.

If a woman raises something, eyebrows are often raised about 'who she has a problem with' and 'what she might be getting back at someone about' before it's considered she might have a genuine grievance. Any thoughts about my late night rambling concepts here?
Click to expand...

Society does tend to trust women, it's them what are expected to look after the children init. Wouldn't leave your children with someone you don't trust would ya. It's power that society doesn't trust women with. That whole 'hysterical woman on a boat with a machine-gun' thing, that or ruthless ice-queen easily displeased. Anyway people see what they're used to seeing out there.
 
Gromit said:
Yeah yeah blame men. The truth is that it's women who don't trust other women to be honest not us simple men folk.
Click to expand...

I can also give many examples of women supporting the patriarchy in other ways. Stuff like a senior female recruiter telling me it's nice that I'm in to "boys subjects".

Bear in mind that most men have been brought up by a mother; it's vital that people of both sexes don't encourage or condone any form of chauvinism if things are to continue to improve.

Personally I feel that the women = less trustworthy line is part of the greater oppression of women. It comes under the same banner as the implication that women chat and natter rather than having something to say, or that women 'don't know their own mind'.

krtek a houby said:
Possibly but I think of mags like Loaded (which, yes, admittedly I bought a few issues) that was only 20 years ago. I do feel things have moved on from that. Ok, it's just a magazine but there was a whole phwooaarr culture that went along with it and now it just seems... embarrasing.

Equality is a long way off in, for example, countries that are under the thumb of religious patriarchies. I sometimes wonder if that will ever change. Perhaps not in my lifetime.
Click to expand...
I always thought Loaded went under because of the increasing availability of digital p0rn (as in higher levels of internet access/personal device ownership, not higher levels of actual smut per se). At the same time digital culture has also spawned the whole PUA scene, 'men going their own way', etc...
 
I dont even know what you are arguing about. steer cleer of what. i dont know your drama, and from reading this dramatics, maybe i dont want to know
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Jeff Robinson
How should a just society deal with abusers?
2 3
Replies
83
Views
3K
newme
newme
T
Reaganomics/Thatcherism is probably the most important influence on global society in the last 35 years.
Replies
8
Views
503
TremulousTetra
T
hitmouse
Condemning/not condemning
Replies
20
Views
1K
Boris Sprinkler
Boris Sprinkler
agricola
Welsh Women's Peace Petition of 1923
Replies
0
Views
174
agricola
agricola
Cloo
Why are more young men than older seeing feminism as a bad thing?
6 7 8 9 10
Replies
287
Views
15K
mango5
mango5
Back
Top Bottom