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who is responsible for the London attacks?

to oi2002's post above:

One implication being of course that the active service unit or whatever you want to call it may still be here and planning other operations. Another is that the cops may have faces if not names from the CCTV.
 
DoUsAFavour said:
So do you really think Bush and his cronies hadn't planned to invade Iraq before 9/11? (
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I'm sure they might have (amongst a whole host of other places on the globe no doubt), but it's planning doesn't always equate to a definite, unequivocal, cast iron intent to invade.

Except in bigfish's conspiraloon world, of world.

I've no doubt certain sections of the US administration ruthlessly exploited the events of 9/11 to pursue their agenda and were eagerly waiting for the opportunity to arise, but when it comes to bigfish's fact-free fruitloop fantasies that it was all one enormous inside job, then my doubt-o-meter shoots off the scale.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
In summary: the security services got caught napping and nobody really knows who it was.
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Well, sort of.

"It was a pretty straightforward operation," said one expert. "It was small, simple and didn't require a lot of people, which would have helped to keep it below the radar of the security services. I don't think we are dealing with the same people who carried out the Madrid or Istanbul bombings."
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editor said:
Except in bigfish's conspiraloon world, of world.
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Are you completely incapable of making a post that doesn't contain a raft cheeseball insults.

It is generally accepted that plans were afoot to invade both Afghanistan and Iraq befor the 911 attacks... unless you're a diehard Bushbot.

A senior member of the ruling British Labour Party has charged that the Bush administration had advance knowledge of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks and allowed them to take place in order to further longstanding plans for the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Michael Meacher, who until he was removed in a cabinet reshuffle last June served as Blair’s environment minister, wrote an article published in the September 6 issue of the Guardian [http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1036571,00.html] entitled “The war on terrorism is bogus: the 9/11 attacks gave the US an ideal pretext to use force to secure its global domination.”
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I suppose Michael Meacher must be a "conspiraloon" too according to your strangled logic.
 
bigfish said:
Are you completely incapable of making a post that doesn't contain a raft cheeseball insults.
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Seeing as you're so conspiracy-desperate that you think the physical location of a web server is somehow significant or relevant, I'd say my comments are rather restrained actually.
 
editor said:
Seeing as you're so conspiracy-desperate that you think the physical location of a web server is somehow significant or relevant, I'd say my comments are rather restrained actually.
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Hang on a minute! You're the guy who thinks an 8 hour delayed action underground shock wave brought down wtc7 aren't you? I mean how "conspiracy-desperate" is that?

But you're not a conpiraloonie, right?

Right!
 
DoUsAFavour said:
That there was going to be an attack.
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how much did they know ? where they aware of the actual time and location ?

if you ask me an attack on london by al-qaeda types was inevitable at some point.
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
nothign is ever inevitable unless it's preplanned...
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oh come on. are you really saying that it's unreasonable to believe london was never going to be hit al qaeda or a related group at some point ?
 
fubert said:
oh come on. are you really saying that it's unreasonable to believe london was never going to be hit al qaeda or a related group at some point ?
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Statistically very likely, but not inevitable. Isn't sematics fun?
 
DoUsAFavour said:
That there was going to be an attack.
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Everyone and his dog knew that London was going to get attacked sooner or later, but are you saying that MOSSAD had specific, detailed knowledge about the time and locations of this week's attacks, and if so, could I see your sources please?
 
editor said:
Note that the 9/11 attacks took place before the Iraq war.
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But *after* two centuries of the West occupying, colonizing, manipulating and stealing from the Islamic world. You do have to see such events in historical context. The point that few people seem able to grasp is that OBL and like-minded people see themselves as the *victims* of Western aggression, they think they're fighting a *defensive* war. Do you think the US troops in Saudi Arabia are there as tourists? NO, their presence is to prop up the most reactionary government in the middle east, because said government is wiling to sell us its oil at knock-down prices. OBL gave their presence as the main reason for 9/11. But how may people in the West are even aware that they're there?
 
bigfish said:
It is generally accepted that plans were afoot to invade both Afghanistan and Iraq befor the 911 attacks... unless you're a diehard Bushbot.
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There are plans to invade france, that's what the army does in peace time, prepare for war, run planning excersises to see how this war or that war would be fought, what troops they would need and what forces would have to be prepositioned, thus deciding where the US keeps it's aircraft carriers, and where it ships it's spare armour.

Now if you've got anything that says that the US were definitly and unstopably in the process of instigating a war before 911 i'd be interested to hear it.
 
On the BBC the other day, Jack Straw said that the world had become more dangerous 'since 2000'. Err what happened in 2000 apart from Bush being elected? !
 
editor said:
Note that the 9/11 attacks took place before the Iraq war.
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well that depends on how you look at it technically the first world war was over iraq... (bagdad to berlin railway....) and in recent times the 1990 war in iraq never really stopped although the ground warfare stopped the no fly zones were in effect organised sorties and bombing excercises ... the sanctions etc were all actions of war.... not peace to technically the 9/11 attacks happened after the iraq war but before the most recent escalation of the hostilities which lead to a re engaugement of the ground war....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iraq
 
Bernie Gunther said:
to oi2002's post above:

One implication being of course that the active service unit or whatever you want to call it may still be here and planning other operations...
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You'd have to work on the assumption that plans for a wave of attacks already exist.

If they're a naive bunch they'll try to follow up quickly before they're scooped up. If they're confident in their security they'll go to ground and resurface in a month or so.

Bit of a scare in Birmingham last night. Probably a hoax caller. PIRA used warning calls not just to reduce counter-productive casualties but as an economic damage multiplier. It would be a first for Jihadis but they tend to be well educated folk and will have studied how PIRA ran its mainland campaigns.

Slugger suspects an Algerian connection.

And Juan is outraged at the suggestion that British Muslims could be involved.
First, we still have no idea who did this. It is very likely the "Qaeda al-Jihad in Europe" group that claimed responsibility immediately. Their statement appeared very quickly after the bombings and yet had none of the appearance of being rushed. That suggests it was carefully composed before the fact. The rumors that the statement has errors in the Arabic or the Quran citation are absolutely incorrect, and al-Sharq al-Awsat came to the same conclusion in its Saturday edition.
...
My guess is that the author of the statement is Egyptian or Sudanese, with some sort of intellectual genealogy in the radical fringes of the Muslim Brotherhood, perhaps al-Zawahiri's al-Jihad al-Islami.

Of course, all of this is premised on the statement being a guide to the perpetrators, which we cannot know for sure. But everything else above follows pretty tightly if it is.
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Now if you've got anything that says that the US were definitly and unstopably in the process of instigating a war before 911 i'd be interested to hear it.
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I'm pretty sure people who were on the inside have since resigned and said Bush was making plans for Iraq as soon as he got in, to the extent that the threat of Al-Q was not taken as seriousl as it should have been. At least one book was written by one of these guygs, I'm afraid I forget thename rightnow.
 
Jo/Joe said:
I'm pretty sure people who were on the inside have since resigned and said Bush was making plans for Iraq as soon as he got in, to the extent that the threat of Al-Q was not taken as seriousl as it should have been. At least one book was written by one of these guygs, I'm afraid I forget thename rightnow.
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I've heard the same/similar rumours, in fact i'm not sure why i questioned that bit of the post, :confused: ah well, shall we move on?
 
Bob_the_lost said:
There are plans to invade france, that's what the army does in peace time, prepare for war, run planning excersises to see how this war or that war would be fought, what troops they would need and what forces would have to be prepositioned, thus deciding where the US keeps it's aircraft carriers, and where it ships it's spare armour.

Now if you've got anything that says that the US were definitly and unstopably in the process of instigating a war before 911 i'd be interested to hear it.
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That's true but there was a great deal of institutional moment behind the decision to invade Iraq. Regime change in Iraq was public stated US policy before 9-11. It's clear that plans were made to invade Iraq before 9-11. Gen. Zinni is on record saying that Clinton requested CENTCOM prepare plans. Rummies arrogant Pentagon did not use these plans; prefering to start from scratch.

On the Afghan war: The Iranians almost invaded after the Taleban lynched several of their diplomats and Clinton did talk to them about collaborating with them in such a venture. I blame the fat girl.

Mike Scheuer in his book Imperial Hubris made the point that its frankly amazing that detailed plans did not exist to wipe out Bin Ladens entire operation and it took the slow assed Pentagon two months to strike back after 9-11.

The lawyerly Yanks had spent five years pissing about trying to kill him with cruise missles and predator drones. Their Afghan ground team's weren't allowed simply to shoot him as that was a no no in US law at the time, the poor bastards were meant somehow to kidnap him despite the fact that he went everywhere with a small army of Jihadis. Steve Cole's Ghost Wars provides a good account of this farce.
 
winterinmoscow said:
Perhaps you could explain Mears, how you belive that it's Arab themselves who are to blame. I've been thinking about this statement since I got up this morning and fail to see how it's anything other than racist shit. If there's more to it, do enlighten us, because it sounds like bigoted, xenophobic nonsense to me.
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Its poorly worded, I apologize if I offended anyone. As You can read in my past posts I believe most people are good. Most Arabs are good and most white people and black people are good. Its more about the environment you grew up in, and I bet we can agree onthat.

A certain number of Arabs are responsibe, and by no means not "all". Just like a certain number of Russians were responsible in 1917 or Germans in 1932.

My mistake.
 
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