who is responsible for the London attacks?

[DaveCinzano]

painfully-forced metaphor of the day:

The fuel rod, speared into the reactor of public opinion to create Islamophobic energy for driving the PNAC mission forward.

unlikely to be bettered.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Hey it does the job, I was quite impressed

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Not true, I've been trying to work out who the fuck they are. They've been talking about 'home grown' islamoterorothingies and I really want to know if these people are Londoners so much. The train between Kings Cross and Russell Sq has been my train so often over the last two years and I've sat there and thought about it blowing up. I knew who I'd blame then and I know who I blame now. The warmongerers. The cunts on both sides who put themselves above human life. And that means it's Blair's fault for putting me and my city in that position.

Some people attacked New York city, and when the US went to war, Blair sided with the US.

It was equally possible that London might have been hit first; in that event, I'd expect that the US would have backed up the UK in any decision to go to war.

BTW, don't forget that it's al Qaida claiming responsibility, and they attacked the US long before the Iraq war. So it would seem that the Iraq war isn't al Qaida's prime motivator.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

We knew this was coming when we signed up for Iraq. Some of us thought it was a bad bargain. Here are the current UK polls on Iraq:

http://pollingreport.co.uk/iraq.html

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

We knew this was coming when we signed up for Iraq. Some of us thought it was a bad bargain. Here are the current UK polls on Iraq:

http://pollingreport.co.uk/iraq.html

Maybe you should pull the troops out, like Spain did after it got bombed.

I think about the possibility of Canada being attacked - and we are a target, since we have a fairly large troop presence in Afghanistan - but it doesn't make me think that we should flee, if a bomb went off here.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

My inclination, and I suspect that of many others here, is to simply refuse to let this influence me one way or another.

The number 30 got blown up at precisely the place where I stand and catch a cab when I'm in my usual hotel in London. I'm getting on a train tomorrow and I'm not going to let today's incident influence me in the slightest.

I still think the war was a fools bargain, this is obviously unlikely to change my opinion.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

My inclination, and I suspect that of many others here, is to simply refuse to let this influence me one way or another.

The number 30 got blown up at precisely the place where I stand and catch a cab when I'm in my usual hotel in London. I'm getting on a train tomorrow and I'm not going to let today's incident influence me in the slightest.

I still think the war was a fools bargain, this is obviously unlikely to change my opinion.

Well then you have my respect.

 

[maomao]

Some people attacked New York city, and when the US went to war, Blair sided with the US.

It was equally possible that London might have been hit first; in that event, I'd expect that the US would have backed up the UK in any decision to go to war.

20 people attacked the US and we attacked two countries in retaliation. I didn't want to be part of their war then and I don't give a fuck what line the US takes out of this. I just want UK troops in the UK where they belong, defending us from nutters like you. I reiterate, they didn't fucking attack Switzerland did they and they're not fucking going to.

BTW, don't forget that it's al Qaida claiming responsibility, and they attacked the US long before the Iraq war. So it would seem that the Iraq war isn't al Qaida's prime motivator.

Or to put it more correctly, the people who did this are aligning themselves with al Qaida. The second part of this bit just doesn't make sense, how could the Iraq war have been the prime motivation for al Quaida before the Iraq war It's not like the US and certain European countries hadn't done enough to piss the middle east off previously.

Answer honestly, do you think that if the UK had stood up against the American Terrorists at the UN 3 years ago we would have been bombed today? And if you say 'yes' you're a liar. Yes, the personal responsibility for the bombings rest with the scum who actually did it but that doesn't mean that other people aren't implicated.

Forgive me if I'm not at my most coherent right now, though everyone I know is safe and well.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

The thing is, in this sort of war, there is no front and there are no safe rear areas. The neo-cons have persistently failed to understand this. We've had a couple of decades of the IRA here, and we understand it all too fucking well thanks. We all knew this was coming, why do you think we had a couple of percent of the population turn up for that march against Bush's dumb idea?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Well then you have my respect.

Nobody here is going to be intimidated, but that doesn't mean we'll buy into the sort of race war that is being suggested as a solution on some US boards this evening. I've just spent a few hours watching them gloat over how this will teach those "faggy english liberals" that they should fear and hate muslims.

I'm not suggesting you share their beliefs JC, but it's put me in a bad mood.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

20 people attacked the US and we attacked two countries in retaliation. I didn't want to be part of their war then and I don't give a fuck what line the US takes out of this. I just want UK troops in the UK where they belong, defending us from nutters like you. I reiterate, they didn't fucking attack Switzerland did they and they're not fucking going to.



Or to put it more correctly, the people who did this are aligning themselves with al Qaida. The second part of this bit just doesn't make sense, how could the Iraq war have been the prime motivation for al Quaida before the Iraq war It's not like the US and certain European countries hadn't done enough to piss the middle east off previously.

Answer honestly, do you think that if the UK had stood up against the American Terrorists at the UN 3 years ago we would have been bombed today? And if you say 'yes' you're a liar. Yes, the personal responsibility for the bombings rest with the scum who actually did it but that doesn't mean that other people aren't implicated.

Forgive me if I'm not at my most coherent right now, though everyone I know is safe and well.

First of all, I believe that in the minds of extremists in the Middle East, Britain shares culpability with the US for whatever it is that they're complaining about: imperialism, capitalism, etc.

Second: I agree that this specific bombing might not have happened if Britain wasn't in Iraq.

But this is where our differences become apparent. I believe that the impulse to fight terrorism was correct, and that that fight brings risk with it.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Nobody here is going to be intimidated, but that doesn't mean we'll buy into the sort of race war that is being suggested as a solution on some US boards this evening. I've just spent a few hours watching them gloat over how this will teach those "faggy english liberals" that they should fear and hate muslims.

I'm not suggesting you share their beliefs JC, but it's put me in a bad mood.

Well don't paint me with a brush dipped in some US right wing paint pot.

 

[DrRingDing]

Was it the IRA, anarchists, Islamic radicals or another group? Anyone want to take a guess at this ealy stage?

mears it was you and you know it

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Well don't paint me with a brush dipped in some US right wing paint pot.

Quite, I apologise if I inadvertently gave that impression JC.

 

[maomao]

But this is where our differences become apparent. I believe that the impulse to fight terrorism was correct, and that that fight brings risk with it.

Well then you're a seriously misguided individual. Goodnite.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

We all knew this was the price of supporting Bush on Iraq. Nobody doubted it. Most of us, to judge from the 20-35% oppositon to Iraq in those polls, didn't think it was worth the risk.

A risk we were all too familiar with thanks.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It angered me when faceless people killed innocents in NY, and it angers me when they do the same thing in London. I consider them to be cowards, and I want to see them rooted out. Our govts go about what is inherently a rightful endeavour in their usual hamfisted manner. They blunder, they misstep. But I believe that ultimately, they want to achieve the thing that I want to see achieved.

 

[maomao]

It angered me when faceless people killed innocents in NY, and it angers me when they do the same thing in London. I consider them to be cowards, and I want to see them rooted out.

Me too, and Faluja etc.etc.

 

[mears]

Because we killed them in their thousands? You and your ilk are responsible for this Mears. They haven't attacked any countries that weren't in the war now have they? We didn't want this war and we're the ones getting shot at, fuck you.

I know, its really terrible is it not? The Kurds and the Shiites really miss those good old days under Saddam I'm sure. Its really a shame that the war with Iraq happened. Iraqis could still be living under the sanctions regime that was supposedly killing tens of thousands of Iraqi children. Uday Hussein would still be alive. Saddam rendering the UN incompetent by thumbing his nose at the world.

The good old days.

Try something like that. Any old fool can say "fuck you".

All "fuck you" says is you have no game.

 

[mears]

Not true, I've been trying to work out who the fuck they are. They've been talking about 'home grown' islamoterorothingies and I really want to know if these people are Londoners so much. The train between Kings Cross and Russell Sq has been my train so often over the last two years and I've sat there and thought about it blowing up. I knew who I'd blame then and I know who I blame now. The warmongerers. The cunts on both sides who put themselves above human life. And that means it's Blair's fault for putting me and my city in that position.

Again, everyone but those who planted the bombs.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Crawl back under your slimy rock mears. This isn't the day to be scoring cheap political points.

 

[Yossarian]

I know, its really terrible is it not? The Kurds and the Shiites really miss those good old days under Saddam I'm sure. Its really a shame that the war with Iraq happened. Iraqis could still be living under the sanctions regime that was supposedly killing tens of thousands of Iraqi children. Uday Hussein would still be alive. Saddam rendering the UN incompetent by thumbing his nose at the world.

 

[mears]

Crawl back under your slimy rock mears. This isn't the day to be scoring cheap political points.

They are fools. Everyone has a complaint. Serbs have a complaint for NATO's bombing. Ukrainians have a complaint with Russia for meddling in their affairs. Chinese have a complaint with Taiwan, Korea has a complaint with Japan. The list goes on and on.

There is animosity among different people and cultures the world over.

Arabs are taking their complaints to an extreme level. New York, Washington, Bali, Ankara, Morocco, Madrid and London for instance.

As I said before, you can't close your eyes and hope Islamic extremeism expires.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Just go leech.

 

[bigfish]

Did the Metropolitan Police give warning to Israeli Embassy?

JERUSALEM -- British police told the Israeli Embassy in London minutes before Thursday's explosions that they had received warnings of possible terror attacks in the city, a senior Israeli official said.

Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had planned to attend an economic conference in a hotel over the subway stop where one of the blasts occurred, and the warning prompted him to stay in his hotel room instead, government officials said.
...
Just before the blasts, Scotland Yard called the security officer at the Israeli Embassy to say they had received warnings of possible attacks, the official said. He did not say whether British police made any link to the economic conference.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the nature of his position.

http://www.local6.com/news/4692820/detail.html

This report has subsequently been strenuously denied by both the Metropolitan Police and Israel's Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom.

Israel not 'warned of attacks'
7 July 2005
Israel was not warned about possible terror attacks in London before at least six blasts ripped through the city, Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom has said.

A Foreign Ministry official had said earlier that British police warned the Israeli Embassy in London of possible terror attacks minutes before the first explosion.

"There was no early information about terrorist attacks," Shalom told Israel Army Radio. "After the first explosion an order was given that no one move until things become clear."

Israel was holding an economic conference in a hotel over the underground stop where one of the blasts occurred.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/PA_NEWA16369741120732702A00?

A couple of prima fasie problems with the London bombings

1. They follow the general election (and the olympics vote) instead of preceding it, as in Spain for example.

2. The nature of the targets almost guaranteed that no one "important" would get killed. Wasn't Netanyahu a lucky boy?

Quote from ITN news: "This is how the virus spreads"

 

[Loki]

A couple of prima fasie problems with the London bombings

1. They follow the general election (and the olympics vote) instead of preceding it, as in Spain for example.

erm, but they coincide with G8.

2. The nature of the targets almost guaranteed that no one "important" would get killed. Wasn't Netanyahu a lucky boy?

erm, this is the same pattern as the bombings in New York, Bali, Madrid, etc. etc.

Which sort of suggests its the same types of terrorist cells behind the attacks

 

[Adorno boy]

Roadkill, you make valid points. But you seem contradictory. You say that it is pointless to absolve social organisations, be they religions, nation states or ethnic groupings...and yet you distance yourself from any guilt for the occupation of the Middle East which in itself is an expression of collective political will....irrespective of your (and my) distaste for it. We all, knowingly or not and consciously or not are complicit in it, through our participation in voting, paying of taxes, the baggage we inherit through our ethnicity, the chosing of what we rebel against etc

The airey-faireynes about human nature is to reaffirm that everyone is responsible for their own actions, irrespective of the motivation or the coersion involved in making decisions. As a soldier, I cannot shoot someone and blame it on my superiors, equally those arseholes in Abu Graib cannot do the same. They are responsible, and if they felt they were coerced then they could quit.

Putting it as essentialistically as you do; if you attempt to mitigate their actions by (commendably but worthily) reflecting on your own then you are merely an apologist for their actions. You and I make a personal choice not to kill; they have not. Much love.

 

[energy release]

erm, but they coincide with G8

To what purpose though?

My view is that these people feel their power is under threat.

Attacking during during this G8 meeting would only (potentially) derail aid to poor countries.

The logic is Western aid to poor countries decreases the power of Islamic fundamentalists.

That is the only logic that can be understood, IMO.

The elections have passed, and Blair is fairly untouchable.

 

[Loki]

To what purpose though?

What purpose do you think? It completely disrupted the G8 conference; the most powerful world leaders were assembled in the UK, and a massive coordinated bombing occured in London. Blair had to fly back to London. It couldn't have been timed better to cause maximum attention throughout the world.

 

[fela fan]

It couldn't have been timed better to cause maximum attention throughout the world.

Well, if that's the case, then why are the culprits taking so long to tell us all who they are?

And be careful with your arrogant western assumption about causing 'maximum attention throughout the world'. Maybe so in the powerful western countries, the ones stealing the world's resources from the poorer nations.

But that still leaves about 200 more countries.