What stupid shit has Trump done today?

[Streathamite]

effectively a dupe post so deleted, as it adds nothing to the fl;ow of the thread

 

[Streathamite]

.


Murdoch who owns Fox hates Bezos because poses a threat to what is left of the Murdoch media empire. It's a business issue. Fox supports Trump because it expects Trump to govern in a manner that is favourable to his interests. Fox is also quite capable of giving Trump the odd warning slap when he gets out of line. If Trump loses, Murdoch or whichever of his children gets to inherit control will move on to the next malleable Republican.

I think yolu can add to this, that Bezos's disdain for Trump is a long standing open secret

 

[ohmyliver]

you'd think so. But who knows now. We appear to have slipped into some sort of 'things that were deemed too unlikely and were thus cut from a poorly written 6th form politcal satire script' reality

 

[Streathamite]

you'd think so. But who knows now. We appear to have slipped into some sort of 'things that were deemed too unlikely and were thus cut from a poorly written 6th form politcal satire script' reality

sure - but there's a desperation to his all out fan-the-race-war-flames, protesters-are-terrorists rhetoric that shows he knows how much trouble he is in

 

[agricola]

sure - but there's a desperation to his all out fan-the-race-war-flames, protesters-are-terrorists rhetoric that shows he knows how much trouble he is in

especially if that is him trying to calm things down

 

[Streathamite]

especially if that is him trying to calm things down

True!

 

[Streathamite]

Apologies if this sounds like whataboutery on behalf of Trump, but what Woodward has done there is absolutely disgraceful. Warning at the time that Trump knew this was much worse than he was saying might well have improved the lamentable response and saved many lives.

edit: also apologies for repeating what many people have said on Twitter already

well, well, well...it turns out you are Not alone, by a very long way, in raising this point
The case against Woodward:

Adweek’s Scott Nover said: “These interviews about Covid-19 were done in February and March. Why are we learning about it in a book published in September? Isn’t there a journalistic imperative to publish this information in a timely manner, especially during a pandemic?

“This is really troubling. As journalists we’re supposed to work in the public interest. I think there’s been a failure here.”

And Woodward's defence:

Woodward told Sullivan he did not know where Trump acquired his information and “the biggest problem I had, which is always a problem with Trump, is I didn’t know if it was true”.

“My job is to understand it, and to hold him accountable, and to hold myself accountable,” said Woodward, explaining that it took months to contextualize everything with reporting. “I did the best I could.”

And tbh, having thought about it overnight, I'm pretty conflicted on it, too

 

[two sheds]

When did he have the last interview? If he'd have come out earlier there'd have been no more.

 

[Streathamite]

When did he have the last interview? If he'd have come out earlier there'd have been no more.

I think the last one was in March, going by that link

 

[two sheds]

So could have been to wait so it boosted book sales? Mind you I'm not sure how much difference it would have made to Trump supporters, mask wearing and the like.

 

[Streathamite]

So could have been to wait so it boosted book sales? Mind you I'm not sure how much difference it would have made to Trump supporters, mask wearing and the like.

That's one (cynical, but understandable) ezxplanation. However, in this link, Woodward gives an alternative explanation

Woodward said his aim was to provide a fuller context than could occur in a news story: “I knew I could tell the second draft of history, and I knew I could tell it before the election.” (Former Washington Post publisher Phil Graham famously called journalism “the first rough draft of history.”)

What’s more, he said, there were at least two problems with what he heard from Trump in February that kept him from putting it in the newspaper at the time:

First, he didn’t know what the source of Trump’s information was. It wasn’t until months later — in May — that Woodward learned it came from a high-level intelligence briefing in January that was also described in Wednesday’s reporting about the book.

In February, what Trump told Woodward seemed hard to make sense of, the author told me — back then, Woodward said, there was no panic over the virus; even toward the final days of that month, Anthony S. Fauci was publicly assuring Americans there was no need to change their daily habits.

Second, Woodward said, “the biggest problem I had, which is always a problem with Trump, is I didn’t know if it was true.”

To me, this has some ring of truth. It's credible, in that Trump spouts so much mind-blowing, absolute bollocks, all the time, that a serious journalist would have to do an extensive fact-check, and it talkes time to do all the supplementary interviews (with other sources, like mattis and Coats) and general reportage.

However, Woodward himself rather blows the gaffe, when he says his target date was always September - in time for the election (as he himself said).
The more I think about it, the more i think he should have released those damned tapes in Spring.

 

[Raheem]

I agree, but you also have to wonder who would have been surprised by the revelation.

 

[Saul Goodman]

I agree, but you also have to wonder who would have been surprised by the revelation.

It may well have garnered him more support. "Oh our brave president, protecting us from the horrible truth". This may still happen.

 

[Streathamite]

I agree, but you also have to wonder who would have been surprised by the revelation.

True. Every trumpist would have screamed 'FAKE NEWS! DOCTORED TAPE!!!!" and refused to believe it, and as for everyone else, American politics - rather like British politics - has been so completely beyond-parody batshit mental over the past 4 years, there's a least a fair chance many of them would be in the 'boiled frogs' situation of being completely inured to such lunacy (as Roadkill brilliantly outlines on the brexit transition thread) ....and maybe they would have just wearily shrugged their shoulders.
Equally - would it have pressured Trump & co into doing more and better, quicker? Tbh, they've been so crap at everything, i doubt it.

 

[Streathamite]

It may well have garnered him more support. "Oh our brave president, protecting us from the horrible truth". This may still happen.

tbh, I think that sort of response would only come from the Trump cultists, and that's not enough to get him to 270. Everyone else would have heard loud alarm bells, especially when the body count started racking up.

 

[Yossarian]

When did he have the last interview? If he'd have come out earlier there'd have been no more.

Woodward says the last interview was July 20.

Even Trump has now jumped on the "Why didn't Woodward report Trump's remarks sooner?" bandwagon.

 

[Saul Goodman]

tbh, I think that sort of response would only come from the Trump cultists, and that's not enough to get him to 270. Everyone else would have heard loud alarm bells, especially when the body count started racking up.

Is a logical response, but we're talking about a people who voted him in. The same people who voted Bush in. It's hard to have faith in people like that to adhere to any semblance of logical thinking.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Woodward says the last interview was July 20.

Even Trump has now jumped on the "Why didn't Woodward report Trump's remarks sooner?" bandwagon.

View attachment 229853

Even so, its still Trump's responsibility, not Woodward's to plan the response to the pandemic.

 

[Streathamite]

Is a logical response, but we're talking about a people who voted him in. The same people who voted Bush in. It's hard to have faith in people like that to adhere to any semblance of logical thinking.

yes, All very true.
I guess the point I was trying to make is that hardcore - both Trumpist ultras, and GOP uber-loyalists who would vote for neonazis so long as they ran on the GOp ticket - are beyond hope, and too far gone, and there's not enough of them to deliverr the Presidency on their own
In fact, they didn't do that on their own, for either Bush or trump, it needed a whole lot of voters beyond those two camps, in both cases. It's those other, non-ultra voters, and independents who I hope will be really shaken and affetced by this

 

[Streathamite]

Woodward says the last interview was July 20.

Even Trump has now jumped on the "Why didn't Woodward report Trump's remarks sooner?" bandwagon.

View attachment 229853

Even by Trump's own spectacular standards, that's simply beyond-bonkers illogic

 

[Saul Goodman]

yes, All very true.
I guess the point I was trying to make is that hardcore - both Trumpist ultras, and GOP uber-loyalists who would vote for neonazis so long as they ran on the GOp ticket - are beyond hope, and too far gone, and there's not enough of them to deliverr the Presidency on their own
In fact, they didn't do that on their own, for either Bush or trump, it needed a whole lot of voters beyond those two camps, in both cases. It's those other, non-ultra voters, and independents who I hope will be really shaken and affetced by this

I absolutely agree. I just hope we're right.

 

[a_chap]

Trump's defence seems to be: "You have to question why Woodward didn't report my incompetence".

Which is stupid even by Trump's standards.

 

[Streathamite]

It's weird. Just even reading the last few pages of this thread and the brexit transition threads alone have convinced me that the world has gone completely batshit insane, beyond any hope of human redemption.
That's how nuts all of this is.

 

[Saul Goodman]

It's weird. Just even reading the last few pages of this thread and the brexit transition threads alone have convinced me that the world has gone completely batshit insane, beyond any hope of human redemption.
That's how nuts all of this is.

My sentiments exactly. So true. Exclamation mark.
The world has gone batshit crazy. It's like being in one of those batshit dreams that you have no control over, and it doesn't matter has many times you batter your head against the wall, you can't wake from it.

 

[tim]

Even by Trump's own spectacular standards, that's simply beyond-bonkers illogic

Yes, but people in middle America want to vote for people they can relate to not pointy-eared experts.

 

[Streathamite]

Beau of the Firth Column has posted an excellent video on his Youtube series, outlining why Woodward was right to hold off disclosure until now, and why it wouldn't actually have made any difference if he had released the tapes way back then.
Unfortunately, I am far too technologically illiterate to post the video.
Here is the link to that video and if some kind, more tech-savvy person would be so kind as to actually post the video - I think it would benefit this thread.

I must admit, I am still chewing over his arguments in my head. I know it's bad form to post vids without comment, but here I htink it helps

 

[Streathamite]

Yes, but people in middle America want to vote for people they can relate to not pointy-eared experts.

agreed, so let me rephrase that: Trump's giving y'all bullshit

 

[Saul Goodman]

Beau of the Firth Column has posted an excellent video on his Youtube series, outlining why Woodward was right to hold off disclosure until now, and why it wouldn't actually have made any difference if he had released the tapes way back then.
Unfortunately, I am far too technologically illiterate to post the video.
Here is the link to that video and if some kind, more tech-savvy person would be so kind as to actually post the video - I think it would benefit this thread.

I must admit, I am still chewing over his arguments in my head. I know it's bad form to post vids without comment, but here I htink it helps

I haven't watched it so I obviously neither agree not disagree with its content.

 

[Streathamite]

I haven't watched it so I obviously neither agree not disagree with its content.

Cheers SG,
sorry to put you to the trouble
I think I need to watch that again and dissect his arguments. I take his point that Woodward is essentially a 'long-format joutnalist' (for those who don't know, this is a kinda hybrid of an investigative journalist and a contemporary historian), and long-format takes months to put together, if you want to do it right, and there's absolutely no point in doing it other than to get it nailed right.
However, his asertion taht America knew all that at the time, and it would have made FA difference....hmm, not so sure.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Cheers SG,
sorry to put you to the trouble
I think I need to watch that again and dissect his arguments. I take his point that Woodward is essentially a 'long-format joutnalist' (for those who don't know, this is a kinda hybrid of an investigative journalist and a contemporary historian), and long-format takes months to put together, if you want to do it right, and there's absolutely no point in doing it other than to get it nailed right.
However, his asertion taht America knew all that at te time, and it would have made FA difference....hmm, not so sure.

I think the fact that the release of the information coincides with the release of his book is a little too coincidental.