what no annual poppy bunfight thread?

[andysays]

an amorphous mass of ordinary well-meaning but fluffy peace-lovers

The bastards

 

[dylanredefined]

The bastards

Turns out it takes more than suggesting war is bad to stop a dictator bent on genocide.
Who would have thought. Obviously all the smart people got killed in the first world war as looking back on the history of the 20 & 30s some really
idiotic decisions were made.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

yeah andysays YOU LITERALLY LOVE HITLER

 

[andysays]

Turns out it takes more than suggesting war is bad to stop a dictator bent on genocide.
Who would have thought. Obviously all the smart people got killed in the first world war as looking back on the history of the 20 & 30s some really idiotic decisions were made.

Thank you for that profound truth which no one here would have recognised were it not for you

Now, on the subject of Nazi appeasement, do you think the most significant idiotic decisions were taken by a significant sector of the British establishment, who later attempted to cover up their willing appeasement of Hitler, or the amorphous mass of ordinary well-meaning but fluffy peace-lovers represented by the PPU?

 

[dylanredefined]

yeah andysays YOU LITERALLY LOVE HITLER

Your the sort of person who talks to Nazis are you?

You are on the list now.

 

[andysays]

yeah andysays YOU LITERALLY LOVE HITLER

Busted

Nothing more I can say, please just bring the ban hammer down now and put me out of my misery

 

[dylanredefined]

Thank you for that profound truth which no one here would have recognised were it not for you

Now, on the subject of Nazi appeasement, do you think the most significant idiotic decisions were taken by a significant sector of the British establishment, who later attempted to cover up their willing appeasement of Hitler, or the amorphous mass of ordinary well-meaning but fluffy peace-lovers represented by the PPU?

Obviously those in power have more to blame depending on why they did it. Which ranged from liking Hitler, to wanting to prepare for the war.
Former case you are either naive or evil. Latter cynically evil.

 

[andysays]

Obviously those in power have more to blame depending on why they did it. Which ranged from liking Hitler, to wanting to prepare for the war.
Former case you are either naive or evil. Latter cynically evil.

Right, so can we please put a stop to this "white poppy wearers are nazi appeasers" shit?

I know you didn't start it, but you appear to be continuing it.

 

[Sprocket.]

Harry Smith said this last year and to be honest I can understand his reasoning for not wearing a poppy from this year on.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/08/poppy-last-time-remembrance-harry-leslie-smith

 

[butchersapron]

I wouldn't imagine many people who choose to wear a white poppy today - and i've never seen a single one in the wild - have much to do with the PPU or the other groups on similar lines that sprung up in the 30s. Those organisations were riddled with nazis and fascists at the top levels (see Fellow Travelers of the Far Right: British enthusiasts for Nazi Germany 1933-39 by Richard Griffiths amongst many others) but the suggestion by some that there is some pro-nazi or pro-fascist sympathy on the part of contemporary wearers by direct comparison is pretty daft. The complicated nature of the pacifists historical entanglement with, and, in many cases, enthusiasm for, fascism tells us very little about today.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't doubt that the British Legion does good work helping people who need help. But they are also a recruiting sergeant for the army. They are spokespeople for present and future wars and cheerleaders of militarism. No, they won't get my support.

The RBL are about as much a recruiting sergeant for the army as war poetry is - that is, they're not. What the RBL try to do is pick up the pieces that successive governments have happily left broken.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The RBL are about as much a recruiting sergeant for the army as war poetry is - that is, they're not. What the RBL try to do is pick up the pieces that successive governments have happily left broken.

In their campaigning and fund-raising, they dress smiling children in t-shirts saying 'future soldier'. They are not a politically neutral organisation.

 

[coley]

In their campaigning and fund-raising, they dress smiling children in t-shirts saying 'future soldier'. They are not a politically neutral organisation.

How's that political?

 

[krink]

These threads get worse every year. We should have a flower symbol to remember when they were still worth reading.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Thank you for that profound truth which no one here would have recognised were it not for you

Now, on the subject of Nazi appeasement, do you think the most significant idiotic decisions were taken by a significant sector of the British establishment, who later attempted to cover up their willing appeasement of Hitler, or the amorphous mass of ordinary well-meaning but fluffy peace-lovers represented by the PPU?

I think that a sector of the British upper class were well into cigarette and blindfold territory. However, from 50 years of observation, the higher up the tree you are (were), the easier it is to engender amnesia in the relevant authorities. Viscount X was a tad misguided, whereas Joe Bloggs was shot as a spy,

 

[Sasaferrato]

How's that political?

It isn't. There are people who are inimically opposed to the concept of armed forces, and will do what they can to disparage them at every opportunity.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Right, so can we please put a stop to this "white poppy wearers are nazi appeasers" shit?

I know you didn't start it, but you appear to be continuing it.

Some of them probably were. Not all, some.

 

[dylanredefined]

I think that a sector of the British upper class were well into cigarette and blindfold territory. However, from 50 years of observation, the higher up the tree you are (were), the easier it is to engender amnesia in the relevant authorities. Viscount X was a tad misguided, whereas Joe Bloggs was shot as a spy,

Isn't one of the reasons the secret army of stay behind forces were kept secret for years after the war was they had lists of collaborators to kill?
Which would have caused a lot of embarrassment if published. Supposedly more than one member would have enjoyed his work.

 

[Scutta]

How's that political?

everything is political. keep up.

 

[coley]

everything is political. keep up.

Is it, how is promoting the armed forces and helping ex servicemen "political"

 

[Scutta]

Is it, how is promoting the armed forces and helping ex servicemen "political"

I was being slightly sarcastic but seen as you ask,

with quite a generalised simple explanation.....

Promoting the armed forces........ as has been discussed some people don't agree with conflicts the armed forces are engaged in therefore promoting their part in this can be seen as being political... and being told you are unpatriotic or whatever for not supporting them as, political.

helping ex-servicemen ....... as has been discussed people may prefer the Gov to do it so that discussion is also political...

whether or not the BL are political (which imo they cannot help) the topics you bring up in your comment are very much political

 

[coley]

I was being slightly sarcastic but seen as you ask,

with quite a generalised simple explanation.....

Promoting the armed forces........ as has been discussed some people don't agree with conflicts the armed forces are engaged in therefore promoting their part in this can be seen as being political... and being told you are unpatriotic or whatever for not supporting them as, political.

helping ex-servicemen ....... as has been discussed people may prefer the Gov to do it so that discussion is also political...

whether or not the BL are political (which imo they cannot help) the topics you bring up in your comment are very much political

That's like saying a lobby group is political, political is when you pursue a political agenda at some level, IMO.

 

[cesare]

That's like saying a lobby group is political, political is when you pursue a political agenda at some level, IMO.

Lobbying is political too: http://www.parliament.uk/get-involved/have-your-say/lobbying/

 

[coley]

Lobbying is political too: http://www.parliament.uk/get-involved/have-your-say/lobbying/

Not in true sense a lobby group will lobby whoever is in power, politics is the seeking of power

 

[butchersapron]

Not in true sense a lobby group will lobby whoever is in power, politics is the seeking of power

There's not actually much that could be called politics in this view.

 

[cesare]

Not in true sense a lobby group will lobby whoever is in power, politics is the seeking of power

Where did you get that definition of politics from?

 

[coley]

Where did you get that definition of politics from?

Nowhere, just an opinion,

 

[cesare]

Nowhere, just an opinion,

I disagree with your opinion, because I think politics is an activity that's not necessarily about seeking power but often about seeking influence on an outcome which may be related to governance but not necessarily.

 

[coley]

I disagree with your opinion, because I think politics is an activity that's not necessarily about seeking power but often about seeking influence on an outcome which may be related to governance but not necessarily.

Well we could argue that there is a political agenda on the local allotment committee, but generally politics is seen, as the seeking of political power, usually starting at local council level, technically politics is involved wherever there is an elective process, but I prefer to keep it simple,or to generalise, so to speak.

 

[cesare]

Well we could argue that there is a political agenda on the local allotment committee, but generally politics is seen, as the seeking of political power, usually starting at local council level, technically politics is involved wherever there is an elective process, but I prefer to keep it simple,or to generalise, so to speak.

There are politics at local level of course. Lots of community politics of all kinds. There are politics In organisations too, internal politics.

You're saying that politics is solely confined to state electoral Politics of political parties and that's not the case.