Welsh fight for independence from UK bolstered by ‘clown’ Boris Johnson
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Proper Tidy
Arsed
Hmmm
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Wow. A party that wants independence makes claim that something makes people want independence 
mwgdrwg
Be a Pisces. Jam.
It is small but rapidly growing. Not just Plaid, but many other voices now too.
As it happens, a lot of these groups will all be marching under one banner this weekend in Caernarfon:
Caernarfon - March For Independence
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Minority support but growing. Less hostility to it now even if not mass support. YesCymru is an (in theory) non-party political campaign group but crossover with Plaid substantial. Drakeford (new FM, Labour) has voiced pro indy comments before now, perhaps fair to say he's indy curious.
Plaid do pretty well in their heartlands (welsh speaking areas) but have shown promise in breaking through in the post industrial (primarily English speaking) bits of Wales - Wood took Rhonda as AM, Queensway ward in Wrexham (part of Queens park estate, consistently amongst most deprived wards in Wales) has a very active Plaid councillor who's held seat for a good few years now and she fights on w/c issues not the traditional welsh nationalist cultural stuff. Plaid did well in the euros and picked up votes that they wouldn't have in past. Welsh football crowd (as in the people who follow the national team, the red wall etc) has become overwhelmingly pro independence in last few years and there is a certain coolness to it that there didn't used to be.
It is small but rapidly growing. Not just Plaid, but many other voices now too.
As it happens, a lot of these groups will all be marching under one banner this weekend in Caernarfon:
Caernarfon - March For Independence
Thanks.
From the outside looking in the impression I get is that the independence movement is driven more by the areas away from the big cities of Cardiff and Swansea. Is this correct? If so is this changing?
Sorry for all the questions, I'm just genuinely interested and don't much about it.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Not much, pretty much, and they have a massive impact but in only a few seats.
Personally, I don't really understand why they are so focused on independence. I can understand the SNP and the various Irish movements, because at the end of the day they are arguing for the Scots and Irish nations to be run by their respective peoples, rather than from London. "Welsh" independence on the other hand is arguing that we should be confined to the land our ancestors were forced to retreat to, rather than our actual country (which is everything South of the Antonine Wall - Lloegyr, yr Hen Ogledd, even London still has a British name). I do not think we have the right to give that up, especially given how much people have suffered for it down the years.
mwgdrwg
Be a Pisces. Jam.
No, the first march was in Cardiff a few months ago and there's buses of people from the big cities coming up north. It's definitley changing, with new groups such as Welsh Football Fans for Independence etc. Also, there's been a massive change from protests by Cymdeithas a Iaith fighting for the Welsh language, to fighting for independence like this is. It's very different indeed .
Proper Tidy
Arsed
No active republican groups I don't think, there might still be a few micro groups like balchder cymru (weird, like drums and camping) but nothing serious.
There was some sort of conference last year or something about forming a republican group, haven't heard much about it since. Was also some right wing split/start up (culturally conservative, nationalist) around same time involving that jac o' the north blogger/tit but dunno if that's still going
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Yeah cymru goch last serious attempt, cosplay is a good description of likes of balchder and the annual abergele martyrs stuff
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
A deeply stupid reaction to Johnson becoming PM.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Why stupid? Pointless, fair enough
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Well it's also pointless of course. But it is stupid in the way only nationalist politics can be. Somehow Johnson is an English phenomenon. Well last I looked, a majority in Wales voted in favour of brexit, just as they did in England. Maybe this way of analysing things is rotten.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
I dunno, Plaid Cymru are fundamentally a political vehicle for the dissolution of great britain and the establishment of an independent wales, this seems pretty consistent (but pointless) tbf
editor
hiraethified
I can understand the reaction. Wales has always suffered from being under pro-England governments (at the expense of Wales), and this clown is about as pro-England and as uninterested in Wales as you can get.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
(and all politics are nationalist unless they're internationalist)
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
(Internationalism is nationalism at another level).
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Over my head this, what do you mean?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You can't be an internationalist without nations existing. What's passed as the left tradition of internationalism historically is the defence of other nation states by other national states or defence on grounds of sovereignty etc. it doesn't work without their being nations to be inter about.
(I'm leaving aside the left comm tradition and most anarchist trads here on purpose)
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Ah ok, yeah agree really
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
editor
hiraethified
Pro England ruling class then. He certainly doesn't give a shit about Wales.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Then it's a real travesty that such class issues should be allowed to be recast on nationalist lines.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
So what?
Why should that influence how those in Wales feel?
Boris cares about nothing but if he cared about something it wouldn't be Wales. Same as the next PM, the one after, the one after that...none of them.
I think I might be a member of PC, they did a reach out to Scots indy supporters a while back.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Don't cross the streams.
Plumdaff
joy in people
There's was a radical independence movement founded last year - Undod - but I haven't heard anything from that since. That and the Desolation Radio are quite interesting on class, race and independence. Probably the most important recent change is significant numbers of Welsh Labour members becoming towards pro independence. There's an article on Nation Cymru I can't search for on my phone that has the numbers.
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