Weds 1st April: G20 protests - discussion, reaction and chat

[Blagsta]

william?

Librarians at protests are cool.

What's not so cool is how Darios consistently misuses the term libertarian.

 

[YouSir]

R.I.P. as yet un-named member of the public who died.

+1

And @ Enumbers, I've seen you write a fair bit which I disagree with here but fair play to you, you're good when it matters.

 

[tangentlama]

police dragging people from climate camp live on bbc #imcg20 any one in london near with cameras would i guess be of use?

Someone on twitter spoke to their sister@climatecamp who says everything fine, they can't leave, but feeling good.

 

[in the face]

i) officers are accountable for their actions, and will - if they have done anything wrong - be held accountable for this demonstration;
ii) there has been ample violence directed at police today, who after all did not start off in riot gear.



Not really - kettling is far safer than the alternative, which is to run about fighting all over the place. We know nothing of the circumstances of this mans death at this stage.

Naivity beyond belief. Police cover up to follow.

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

All the relevant CCTV cameras will develop mysterious 'faults' as soon as anyone wants to see the footage of police beating people for no reason.

.

Wasnt there supposed to be some kind of "problem" with the CCTV in London today that meant that it wouldnt be recording?

I'm sure I read that somewhere earlier.

 

[Azrael]

Not really - kettling is far safer than the alternative, which is to run about fighting all over the place. We know nothing of the circumstances of this mans death at this stage.

How is "kettling" safe? And was it used in response to mass-violence? Doesn't look like it. ITV news had a reporter in with the protesters. Hardly the most sympathetic outlet, but he said the police surrounded and detained thousands of peaceful demonstrators outside the Bank of England. After two-and-a-half hours, things kicked off.

If you detain thousands of people for hours at a time, you're going to provoke violence.

 

[agricola]

Naivity beyond belief. Police cover up to follow.

Good for you, lets make snap judgements four hours after this chap has died when we are in total possession of the facts, shall we?

 

[tangentlama]

i) officers are accountable for their actions, and will - if they have done anything wrong - be held accountable for this demonstration;
ii) there has been ample violence directed at police today, who after all did not start off in riot gear.



Not really - kettling is far safer than the alternative, which is to run about fighting all over the place. We know nothing of the circumstances of this mans death at this stage.

agricola - after they police got into riot gear, alot of people wanted to leave, but instead were not allowed. I personally feel that those who wanted to leave ought to have been allowed to leave. It was 3pm and tea-time, for goodness sake.

 

[where to]

you wouldn't think a man had died going by some of the inane comments on this thread.

the context has changed now. wake up.

 

[e19896]

+1

And @ Enumbers, I've seen you write a fair bit which I disagree with here but fair play to you, you're good when it matters.

thnaks at time such as this fuck the class polatics i have tears for the man who i have no doubt has been killed by the pigs fucking scum, plus there is a large sheffield group there of mates one is very concerned indeed..

 

[cesare]

i) officers are accountable for their actions, and will - if they have done anything wrong - be held accountable for this demonstration;
ii) there has been ample violence directed at police today, who after all did not start off in riot gear.



Not really - kettling is far safer than the alternative, which is to run about fighting all over the place. We know nothing of the circumstances of this mans death at this stage.

I missed a few minutes here and there, but by and large I've had the BBC live news feed running all day. No, the police didn't start off in riot gear. The riot gear cops emerged all of a sudden at RBS.

 

[where to]

Naivity beyond belief. Police cover up to follow.

police cover up well under quite possibly.

 

[in the face]

Good for you, lets make snap judgements four hours after this chap has died when we are in total possession of the facts, shall we?

Twat. Let's believe what the police tell us? Stupid prick.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Yes agreed and i have said in public respect due to them this time round, no matter the class the police have gone right over the top and a man dead we need to focuss on what is happening right now, ive been up from 5am updateing not giveing a shit on the issue of class:

fair enough mate. its all a bit raw. cops fucking worked it from top to bottom basically. and people are stupid enough to walk into things. And now we hear some poor person has died as well. not a great day by any means. these fuckers have got it coming to them sometime soon.

 

[tangentlama]

<->

 

[spitfire]

I spent most of the day down there today and missed most of the grief. I must have developed a nose for it subconciously.

The Climate Camp should have been left by the police to run it's course, it was however clear from about 5pm that this was not going to happen. It was undoubtedly one of the fluffiest demo's I have ever seen.

There will be a lot of very upset kids with good intentions who are just wanting to make a difference peacefully and who will now never see the police in the same light.

i've got some photo's up on Flickr if anyone wants to have a look.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/niallist/sets/72157616147435635/

 

[editor]

Good for you, lets make snap judgements four hours after this chap has died when we are in total possession of the facts, shall we?

I'd imagine there's at least a suspicion that if he hadn't been forced into a confined space without food and water for so many hours he may still be alive, but let's wait until we get the full story.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

kettling is far safer than the alternative, which is to run about fighting all over the place

Those are not the only two possible situations.

 

[agricola]

Twat. Let's believe what the police tell us? Stupid prick.

Ah, the response of the cretin. If this chap turns out to have died as a result of something other than police malpractice, will you come back and apologise?

 

[lizzieloo]

Report on the BBC that the man "in his 30s" died of natural causes

 

[spitfire]

I missed a few minutes here and there, but by and large I've had the BBC live news feed running all day. No, the police didn't start off in riot gear. The riot gear cops emerged all of a sudden at RBS.

The police had riot gear on all day, they merely took out their helmets and sticks in the afternoon, from about 1.30-2.

 

[Azrael]

There will be a lot of very upset kids with good intentions who are just wanting to make a difference peacefully and who will now never see the police in the same light.

Excellent point. Not only is police lawlessness bad for liberty, the disrespect it creates does nothing to help order.

Unless there's some serious trouble tomorrow, it looks like the police intelligence screwed up big time. Feel bad for getting suckered in. Will know better next time.

 

[quimcunx]

Someone on twitter spoke to their sister@climatecamp who says everything fine, they can't leave, but feeling good.

It is amazing how people just a few feet away from someone else can have such different experiences/impression of events.

Bit of a late report but my friend who was there, 40 odd year old mother of one, was there for about 5 hours from 11ish. She said it was festivally and good-natured. They were near RBS at one point and said the window smashing was about 20 secs aggro in the whole affair. One of her number left through police lines early afternoon. They were letting people out but not in. When another wanted to leave a little later he reappeared an hour later having failed to find anywhere where the police would let him out. They were basically wandering about and sitting around the Exchange fairly contentedly. They walked round looking for somewhere to get out. Decided not to go up the road with police on horses but found another way. It was only watching footage on the BBC that she got the impression there had been lots of trouble.

 

[_pH_]

Eyewitness report

Just got back home, here's my view of the day:

Got to Bank at 12.00ish, lots of protestors, lots of cops but generally all good natured. Not a lot happening at first, lots of standing around. Plenty of graff on BoE and on the road but 99% done in chalk so no permanent damage. Good atmosphere, footballs being chucked around, sound systems etc.

Me and mate went along threadneedle st towards RBS and got as far as c.50ft from the front line. not a lot happening at first, plod pushed everyone back. then seemed to give ground to allow the protest to move forward another 20ft or so.

A few bits and pieces being chucked at RBS, mostly plastic bottles. 2 coppers helmets/hats seized and lobbed into the crowd. lol

RBS building not boarded up (unlike shops, cafes etc. nearby) - a few attempts were made to break the windows from what we could see (glass wobbling), but it took around 1/2 hour before any damage was done, yet police seemed to make no attempt to stop this. a bit weird

People standing on the window ledges of adjacent buildings indicated that there were police horses down the road to the north of Threadneedle St.; we expected a charge but this didn't happen.

Hung around there a bit longer, then moved back down threadneedle st. (mate needed a poo so we thought we'd better find a pub) to find police were kettling everyone. Still good humoured though, lots of peeps with picnics etc., but others having to piss in doorways as police had blocked off exits. Saw one protestor with head wound. Sound systems playing, all good natured by and large.

About 2.30 ish, police line moved back/aside to allow crowds to move along Queen Victoria Street, which was a bit unexpected Got as far as Queen Street and went into a pub for a poo (him not me) and a pint then came back out to find police had blocked Queen Victoria Street at the jct with Queen Street. Met Police in riot gear stopped us moving back down to QESt, while BTP not in riot gear formed another line to stop those on QEst moving up Queen Street - 'divide and conquer' maybe?

Then went up to Bishopsgate via Moorgate St. & London Wall as all other routes blocked. Got to Climate Camp on Bishopsgate - VERY FLUFFY and AMAZING. Samba bands, sound systems, loads of tents (as if Glasto had been transported to Bishopsgate), food, toilets etc. Bumped into Editor and LDR

Line of police at either end of climate camp allowing people out but not back in as far as I can tell. Left Bishopsgate about 5.

Dropped mate off at Victoria to get coach back to Cambridge then went to Ldn Brdge stn. to meet roadie for a drink in the Market Porter - left there about 9.30 to see London Bridge occupied by protestors.

Can't comment on anything I didn't see, but conclusions:

Generally good natured, saw little trouble from protestors. Police a lot less violent than at, say, Poll Tax.
Some protestors masked up, but also Police
Kettling tactics were a bit strange - seemed to be aimed at 'divide and conquer'
Curious that RBS wasn't boarded up given that it's next to BoE, and was likely to be a target given Fred The Shred and all that

Have had a quick look through this thread, and seen some of the meeja reporting re Climate Camp - if the Police are using force to break this up, then they're bang out of order as it was entirely peaceful

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Report on the BBC that the man "in his 30s" died of natural causes

Just saw that. Does the BBC now conduct post mortems?

 

[agricola]

How is "kettling" safe? And was it used in response to mass-violence? Doesn't look like it. ITV news had a reporter in with the protesters. Hardly the most sympathetic outlet, but he said the police surrounded and detained thousands of peaceful demonstrators outside the Bank of England. After two-and-a-half hours, things kicked off.

If you detain thousands of people for hours at a time, you're going to provoke violence.

There were BTP officers getting attacked outside Bank at around midday, and then of course there was the whole RBS thing. After that it seemed - and I hasten to add I was watching it via BBC News - that the riot-equipped police turned up (who were probably just the non-riot equipped police who had gone to get their riot equipment) and the kettling began. Indeed, this is usually what happens - its not as if masses of TSG descend on shopping streets in London normally and just randomly corall thousands of people.

As for whether its safe, it is IMHO safer than the alternative.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Just saw that. Does the BBC now conduct post mortems?

not sure but ITN do stitch-ups on the basis of their report tonight

 

[cesare]

The police had riot gear on all day, they merely took out their helmets and sticks in the afternoon, from about 1.30-2.

Some of them may have done, but not the ones that I was watching. By riot gear I mean the full helmets, shields and batons.

 

[nick h.]

Is kettling illegal or not? People in the thread seem to disagree. Anyone got any links?

e2a: a lawyer tells me it is legal:http://www.oup.com/uk/orc/bin/9780199286379/resources/updates/updates1107/ch11/p633/

But More4 news said that was in doubt.

 

[quimcunx]

Just saw that. Does the BBC now conduct post mortems?

Newsreader reported that another protestor had said he'd died of natural causes.