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Weds 1st April: G20 protests - discussion, reaction and chat

Abso-fucking-lutely. The Climate Camp was totally fluffy. City Of London plod were wandering around NOT in riot gear and there was no hint whatsoever of any aggression. No need for Plod to go in with batons a-twirling :mad:

None at all, a couple of the cops were actively enjoying it. I christened one smiley jeff, he had a daffodil.
 
the newsreader was reading from the police statement, rather than quoting the protester directly.

also, one protester wouldn't necessarily have any idea if the person had previously been on the receiving end of a batton / elbow / punch earlier that had led to the later collapse.

Or indeed that his being held all day didn't contribute
 
yup, also here's one of the biggest policeman I have ever seen taken at 12.17 on Bishopsgate. Clearly ready for action, he just needs his hat and that.

3405621434_c409a4c9c3.jpg

You've clearly never been evicted bu Dutch riot plod. None of them wear their riot gear, no one gives them grief.
 
If you see someone collapse to the ground and die, without having been hit or shot or poked with a poisoned umbrella then it is reasonable to assume that it was natural causes until such time as a post-mortem has taken place or other information comes to light.
I certainly wouldn't assume that a 30 year old man suddenly collapsing and dying was 'natural causes,' even less so in today's circumstances.
 
quote from indymedia, quite possibly bollocks/ misinformed/ chinese whispers. take from it what you will.
The boyfriend of my sisters friend works for the bank of england in the museum (yea, they have a museum). Apparently the deceased is a middle aged man was found face up near some steps, he was not breathing when found and he appeared to have been struck on the top right of the head as there was blood. The police were apparently very evasive when asked by bank staff as to what happened. This is only what i've heard so i cant confirm if it is 100% accurate

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/04/426023.html?c=on#c219250]
 
Was he? I didn't hear him say that.



If you see someone collapse to the ground and die, without having been hit or shot or poked with a poisoned umbrella then it is reasonable to assume that it was natural causes until such time as a post-mortem has taken place or other information comes to light.
in normal circumstances yes, but when the person is inside a kettled protest where the police have been batoning people around the head in close proximity to where the person has collapsed... could be coincidence, but the odds of the 2 things being linked are relatively high IMO*



* speaking as someone who's run stewards teams at big festivals, and largescale protests for 10 years, dealt with a fair few collapses, but never had a fatality... I'm not convinced the odds are in favour of it being a random collapse unrelated to police action - or possibly being hit by a misdirected protestors bottle, or caught in a crush situation, or stress induced panic attack etc, but I'd say the odds of it being entirely unconnected are fairly low.
 
I'm getting very dubious as to the validity of the indymedia reports.

climatecamp says one thing - e.g. "samba band in full swing. surrounded by a good crowd of people", whilst indymedia reported police were attacking.
 
I'm getting very dubious as to the validity of the indymedia reports.

climatecamp says one thing - e.g. "samba band in full swing. surrounded by a good crowd of people", whilst indymedia reported police were attacking.

Police attacking at one end, samba band at the other
 
I'm getting very dubious as to the validity of the indymedia reports.

climatecamp says one thing - e.g. "samba band in full swing. surrounded by a good crowd of people", whilst indymedia reported police were attacking.
I think it depends which side of the climate camp police cordons the people making the reports are on - ie people on the outside may well be getting battered while those on the inside are totally oblivious to it.
 
Anyways, busy day tomorrow, off to bed.

Another shocking day by our officers of the law.

Any filth on here, I'm sure you're children will be very proud of what you and your colleagues have achieved.

Injured people, get well soon and sue the fuck (rather my taxes went to you than Jacqui Smith's vibrator or whatever); to the nicked, be lucky.

RIP protester and my thoughts to his family & friends.
 
23:55 Climate Camp - Police are now moving from south to north pushing people out of the space occupied by the climate camp, and it's clearing out fast. About 500 people are left at this point.

23:28 Climate Camp - Push past Liverpool Street as a group are chased at speed pursued byt police dogs and vans. At least one arrest
indymedia
 
climatecamp12.01: Police trying to disrupt organised retreat at south perimeter. Riot police kicking non-violent protestors on floor.
 
dead man possibly attacked by police batons on his head, according to this rumor on indymedia

The boyfriend of my sisters friend works for the bank of england in the museum (yea, they have a museum). Apparently the deceased is a middle aged man was found face up near some steps, he was not breathing when found and he appeared to have been struck on the top right of the head as there was blood. The police were apparently very evasive when asked by bank staff as to what happened. This is only what i've heard so i cant confirm if it is 100% accurate

imc people are on this now https://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/04/426023.html?c=on#c219250
 
climatecamp: 12:06 Worth reminding people this is about the future of our planet and not the met trying to justify their 20 million fee.

climatecamp: 12:08 We're here to remind people that the #g20 are responsible for 89% of annual co2 emissions and need to do something about it.
 
I certainly wouldn't assume that a 30 year old man suddenly collapsing and dying was 'natural causes,' even less so in today's circumstances.

in normal circumstances yes, but when the person is inside a kettled protest where the police have been batoning people around the head in close proximity to where the person has collapsed... could be coincidence, but the odds of the 2 things being linked are relatively high IMO*



* speaking as someone who's run stewards teams at big festivals, and largescale protests for 10 years, dealt with a fair few collapses, but never had a fatality... I'm not convinced the odds are in favour of it being a random collapse unrelated to police action - or possibly being hit by a misdirected protestors bottle, or caught in a crush situation, or stress induced panic attack etc, but I'd say the odds of it being entirely unconnected are fairly low.

I wouldn't assume he hadn't, although I'm not discounting that he might have been injured earlier on, or being penned in for hours without food and water exacerbated an existing condition.

Not many 30 year old men suddenly collapse and die but I reckon most 30 year old men who do suddenly collapse and die, die of natural causes. That doesn't mean this man did, but I reported what the BBC newsreader said as I heard it which was that a fellow protestor said he died of natural causes. (he's just said it again, no ''seemed'') That doesn't mean he's right, of course but it's the only report the BBC have passed on to me so far.


There will be a post-mortem, providing his next of kin agree, and we'll maybe find out then.
 
Hmm..why post on this thread. I suppose because I can. Call me a robot but I'm a free agent compared to you.

And of course because everyone should be able to put forward an opinion even if it is different.

You don't like it though do you ? It offends you that someone can invade your cosy world and say

Some policemen and women ( and it may be a minority ) are worthless criminal scum and the British public are awre of it from the images on the television today.

You can froth all you want but you know it. That's what upsets you.

I fixed that quote for you PBP, you can read the morning papers for yourself, even the Star isn't buying that tired old "soapdodger" bullshit anymore.

You lose, LOL

:D
 
just thinking, the 999 call was 19.07pm which was around the time that there were more kickoffs just outside the Bank of England (which is meant to be where the deceased was found).

i think this was around the time that has been shown on the al jazeera clip posted earlier, and on the C4 news tonight (you can see it over at their website), where the protesters had put up fences to stop them being attacked, and the riot cops steamed in pretty heavy.
 
i) officers are accountable for their actions, and will - if they have done anything wrong - be held accountable for this demonstration;
How exactly, since they all cover their numbers up & some even wear face masks? Who is going to do the investigation if someone complains about being beaten for no reason by a faceless, numberless police officer somewhere near the bank of england this afternoon and how would they go about collecting evidence. You are dreaming if you think anyone is going to get legal redress over that against any specific officer, unless they have very good clear footage, and even then it will be claimed that the actions were neccessary and proportionate etc.
ii) there has been ample violence directed at police today, who after all did not start off in riot gear.

Not really - kettling is far safer than the alternative, which is to run about fighting all over the place. We know nothing of the circumstances of this mans death at this stage.
The issue of what police wear is actually a red herring, it is what they *do* that is important. A policeman kitted out in riot gear who behaves reasonably isn't a problem. One kitted out in normal gear behaving like a twat is a problem.

This has everything to do with the whole strategy employed:

Stage 1: The "crowd shaping" phase - get in the way of marchers at the last minute (ie just before the BoE) and try and push them backwards in on themselves. Cut the crowd into managable 'chunks' using barriers and lines of officers. Prevent people from going down side streets. Prevent people from going in or out of certain areas. "Shape" the crowds into static lumps of a certain size and keep them there against their will, to demoralise the more 'casual' protestors. Shaping the crowd means that no one section is more than a certain size. Keeping it static means that people can't choose where and how they protest, and allows stage 2 to progress.

Stage 2: Keeping this 'holding pattern', get increasingly kitted up and start rough-housing the crowd in sections - push them around pointlessly and start beating them, but don't let them leave. Further wears down and demoralises people and also provides the pretext for next stage...

Stage 3: The 'controlled release' phase - disperse the 'softer targets' in the crowd in small increments, by baton charging and pushing the crowd around, but now allowing some people to escape. Because people have been held so long most will immediately decide to go home at this point. On the way out they are intimidated and isolated so are easier to bully and instruct, less likely to join another demonstration. In effect the softer targets are bullied off the field of play.

Stage 4: The "Finish them off" phase - anyone who still remains is driven further together and can now be labelled as "the hard core" - by the fact they have remained (and ignoring that they have been penned in). At this point they can be baton charged repeatedly, the media will have run away and its too dark for decent footage, news deadlines have past and the remainder can be arrested, id-ed, searched etc.

This strategy is put in place beforehand, and enacted regardless of how peaceful people are. Anyone wanting to uncover the documentation and management of this by senior officers is told to get fucked on the grounds of operational secrecy, public safety and national security. The proof exists however by looking at even after event where the same thing is put into effect, regardless of people's "right to protest" or how well behaved people are.

eta: Stage 1-3 is applied first of all to the 'high risk' area (ie BoE). By the time they get to stage 4 there, they can shift attention to the Climate Camp, going hrough the same shape/wear down/release/finish off process there as well.

Great country we live in, isn't it?
 
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