War on Woke: Conservative Cultural Campaigning

[Artaxerxes]

No-one was excited by the program it offered, bar a few activists. Of course no-one is an exaggeration. I'm sure you can find some. The ability to construct an appealing vision of the future was severely hampered by nostalgia for 70s social democracy.

Research suggests the majority of Corbyns policies were between 50 and 70% popular when stripped of the name Corbyn and Labour

It suggests the problem is not so much with either Corbyn or Labour but one of marketing and reporting

 

[two sheds]

Corbyn delivered an eighty seat majority to one of the worst PMs we have ever seen. Quite a feat.

And yet, some posters here feel that Corbyn's policies weren't radical enough.

I gather though that people who left the Labour party under Corbyn, have re-joined under Starmer. Swings and roundabouts.

Do you have figures for that? I'd seen that there'd been a large loss of membership.

 

[two sheds]

Research suggests the majority of Corbyns policies were between 50 and 70% popular when stripped of the name Corbyn and Labour

It suggests the problem is not so much with either Corbyn or Labour but one of marketing and reporting

indeed, reporting/lack of reporting/biased reporting being the major one with 90% of the press.

 

[Santino]

If the NUS has any charitable status, this needs to be removed, they are not a charity, they are a hard left cesspit.

Can you outline the legal basis for removing charitable status on the basis of political viewpoints? Or would you not agree that it is absolutely unconscionable that politics of one stripe is encouraged, whilst opposing political view is silenced?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Do you have figures for that? I'd seen that there'd been a large loss of membership.

Yeah, membership fell by 10 per cent in the first seven months of Starmer's leadership. I'm sure there are a few who've rejoined now Corbyn is gone, but they are massively outnumbered by those who have left because of Starmer.

Labour hit by ‘exodus’ of members led by Corbyn supporters | The Week UK

 

[Ax^]

hmm country pretty much tied into another ten years of Tory rule at least, labour is trying to out patriot the Tory and most media outlets are owned by business or people with right leading tendency

but fuck me they have not go enough voices yet

 

[AmateurAgitator]

My experience of being a student at university was that both myself and those like me, and the right-wing students, were allowed to speak our minds (and I did a year of Politics, I left uni a year or two ago now). The lecturers and tutors were predominantly centrist and not 'left-wing'. The curriculum also lacked 'left-wing' content and was about getting a career. Education curriculums are pro-establishment and you'd be hard-pressed to find a left-wing teacher in schools from my experience, and the experience of others I know.

The idea that universities are being 'taken over by the far-left' or that 'left-wing teachers are brainwashing our kids' in schools is simply a far-right conspiracy being used by the right to manipulate things and impose neo-McArthyism.

What I will also say is that Prevent is a disaster and needs to go.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Who has been silenced that shouldn't have been?

Anyone who has been prevented from speaking.

In a democracy, everyone has the right (within the constraints of the law) to be heard. If you don't want to listen, don't go, but you have no right whatsoever to block speakers because you don't approve.

THE BANNED LIST

A growing list of speakers, academics, and others in the UK who have been banned, censored, disciplined or otherwise threatened for their views.

www.afaf.org.uk

 

[Sasaferrato]

Do you have figures for that? I'd seen that there'd been a large loss of membership.

No. Anecdotal.

 

[ddraig]

Anyone who has been prevented from speaking.

In a democracy, everyone has the right (within the constraints of the law) to be heard. If you don't want to listen, don't go, but you have no right whatsoever to block speakers because you don't approve.

THE BANNED LIST

A growing list of speakers, academics, and others in the UK who have been banned, censored, disciplined or otherwise threatened for their views.

www.afaf.org.uk

Who particularly has stood out for you?

 

[two sheds]

Corbyn delivered an eighty seat majority to one of the worst PMs we have ever seen. Quite a feat.

And yet, some posters here feel that Corbyn's policies weren't radical enough.

I gather though that people who left the Labour party under Corbyn, have re-joined under Starmer. Swings and roundabouts.

.. the party has lost 56,874 members since April.

Labour NEC vote reveals huge drop in party membership since Starmer's election

That was in November and I know for a fact there's been at least one more since then.

Unless you have more accurate figures? You seem to lose your head in these sorts of posts Sas.

No. Anecdotal.

Anecdote in the daily mail?

 

[Teaboy]

I like the idea of the NUS being hard left. The uni I was at the NUS hierarchy was full of sports type who were there to get as much money for the sports clubs and as much sex as possible in general.

I've just googled the VP as his name is unusual. Turns out he now runs his own events company. You don't get much more hard left then that.

 

[LDC]

I do think there's a serious discussion to be had about some of this stuff, it's been touched on in other threads, but surely we can agree whatever the problems and issues are around it anything the Tories do in relation to it will be fucking terrible?

 

[ddraig]

Anyone who has been prevented from speaking.

In a democracy, everyone has the right (within the constraints of the law) to be heard. If you don't want to listen, don't go, but you have no right whatsoever to block speakers because you don't approve.

THE BANNED LIST

A growing list of speakers, academics, and others in the UK who have been banned, censored, disciplined or otherwise threatened for their views.

www.afaf.org.uk

What if 99% of the people attending or part of an institution don't want the person to speak? Should the "majority view" be respected? Or anyone should be able to say what they want, where they want and when they want?

 

[Sasaferrato]

My experience of being a student at university was that both myself and those like me, and the right-wing students, were allowed to speak our minds. The lecturers and tutors were predominantly centrist and not 'left-wing'. The curriculum also lacked 'left-wing' content and was about making money and getting a career. Education curriculums are pro-establishment and you'd be hard-pressed to find a left-wing teacher in schools from my experience, and the experience of others I know.

The idea that universities are being 'taken over by the far-left' or that 'left-wing teachers are brainwashing our kids' in schools is simply a far-right conspiracy being used by the right to manipulate things and impose neo-McArthyism.

What I will also say though is that Prevent is a disaster and needs to go.

When small children are being referred, it is a farce.

 

[Brainaddict]

Research suggests the majority of Corbyns policies were between 50 and 70% popular when stripped of the name Corbyn and Labour

It suggests the problem is not so much with either Corbyn or Labour but one of marketing and reporting

That was an issue of course. Though a hostile press needs to be assumed by any movement. As for the popularity of individual policies, sure, people prefer to be better managed than managed by total arseholes. But it's not necessarily an exciting vision of the future.

Anyway, my point is I don't think we should fight over the past without talking about the future at the same time. I suspect that will lead to the Tories winning their bogus war. They're not entirely stupid, they're picking a fight on terrain where they have the advantage.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

When small children are being referred, it is a farce.

It has also been used to silence a left-wing academic simply for discussing the concept of revolution in his work.

 

[not-bono-ever]

I do think there's a serious discussion to be had about some of this stuff, it's been touched on in other threads, but surely we can agree whatever the problems and issues are around it anything the Tories do in relation to it will be fucking terrible?

Ineffectual more likely

 

[hitmouse]

free speech means you have to listen to any speaker wherever they are without heckling or shouting them down or standing outside slagging them and their ideas off. Those are the rules now, and they will I'm sure be applied equally to all viewpoints and not just the cunts desperate to mainstream race science again.

I'm gonna grass the mods on here up to the government for suppressing free speech. It's anti-British of them to suppress dissenting narratives like click here rayban sales 90% offer, hare krishna rascal pigs, and 9/11 conspiracy stuff.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I guess "anti-woke" sounds better than "racist, transphobic cunt" as a self-identifier.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Moribund backwards looking politics, yeh but the war dead. Etc.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Moribund backwards looking politics, yeh but the war dead. Etc.

There is an advert for Erskine that goes 'The dead are dead, it is the living that need your help'.

War dead are just that, dead. Certainly remember them, but they were just men like any other.

I find the 'cult' of almost worshipping the fallen a bit disquieting.

 

[Sasaferrato]

That was an issue of course. Though a hostile press needs to be assumed by any movement. As for the popularity of individual policies, sure, people prefer to be better managed than managed by total arseholes. But it's not necessarily an exciting vision of the future.

Anyway, my point is I don't think we should fight over the past without talking about the future at the same time. I suspect that will lead to the Tories winning their bogus war. They're not entirely stupid, they're picking a fight on terrain where they have the advantage.

It's not a war. It is simply a re-establishment of the status quo ante.

I would not dream of suggesting that someone be denied the right to speak, because I didn't agree with them.

 

[Sasaferrato]

What if 99% of the people attending or part of an institution don't want the person to speak? Should the "majority view" be respected? Or anyone should be able to say what they want, where they want and when they want?

Absolutely. Within the law of course.

If 99% don't want to listen, then they won't go and hear the speaker. Surely an empty hall is a much more eloquent comment than refusing to let someone speak?

 

[Sasaferrato]

I like the idea of the NUS being hard left. The uni I was at the NUS hierarchy was full of sports type who were there to get as much money for the sports clubs and as much sex as possible in general.

I've just googled the VP as his name is unusual. Turns out he now runs his own events company. You don't get much more hard left then that.

Ummm... there is a difference between people involved with the NUS whilst at university, and the hierarchy of the NUS, who are employed by the union.

 

[Sasaferrato]

.. the party has lost 56,874 members since April.

Labour NEC vote reveals huge drop in party membership since Starmer's election

That was in November and I know for a fact there's been at least one more since then.

Unless you have more accurate figures? You seem to lose your head in these sorts of posts Sas.



Anecdote in the daily mail?

Guardian.

 

[hitmouse]

It's not a war. It is simply a re-establishment of the status quo ante.

I would not dream of suggesting that someone be denied the right to speak, because I didn't agree with them.

You would, though, surely? Say I rock up to a geology class and say "hello, I'm a flat earther, I demand that I be allowed to speak so we can debate my controversial opinions", would you insist that I should be given time and space, or would you recognise that as being a waste of everyone's time?

 

[killer b]

Ummm... there is a difference between people involved with the NUS whilst at university, and the hierarchy of the NUS, who are employed by the union.

how come you're such an expert on the people who get involved in the NUS at university?

 

[Artaxerxes]

"Hello, I'm Hitler, I'm here to tell you how to be a fantastic business leader and entrepreneur."

No you can't cancel him speaking just because he's gassed 6 million people and killed another twenty million, that would be just rude.

 

[Serge Forward]

You would, though, surely? Say I rock up to a geology class and say "hello, I'm a flat earther, I demand that I be allowed to speak so we can debate my controversial opinions", would you insist that I should be given time and space, or would you recognise that as being a waste of everyone's time?

I, for one, would love to hear about that big fucking ice wall at the edge