War on Woke: Conservative Cultural Campaigning

[chilango]

Birbalsingh's schtick is to hire teachers with no experience who will be in no position to question the boundaries she draws unilaterally.

More generally there is an emphasis on 'whole school behaviour policies' which are dreamt up or bought in wholesale by managers and which leave actual teachers little room to apply judgement.

Teachers expressly forbidden to apply judgement in the name of "consistency". Literal scripts for teachers to follow (idk if that's what Birbalsingh does, but many of her fellow travellers do.).

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I'd say you're asking the wrong question.

Well I'd say I was asking the correct one.

Look, we obviously both agree that boundaries of some sort are required, so it's not as if simply stating that is dangerous, or neccessarily leads to right-wing populism. What it does mean, however, is that all the questions you asked me above also need to be asked of you.

What do you think the boundaries should be? Who should they be set by?

At a national level?
School by school?
Classroom by classroom?
Pupil by pupil?

etc.

 

[chilango]

One school I visited had the pupils stand behind their desks and lay out the contents of their pencil cases in front of them. If they didn't match the photograph of the prescribed layout that every teacher has a laminated photo of, they were whisked out of class - for "defiance" - before they got a chance to sit down.

That's the sort of "boundaries" we're dealing with in schools in 2021.

 

[tim]

Would you say that kids don't need boundaries?

Not as much as adults do. It's those with power in institutions that abuse most evilly.

 

[chilango]

Well I'd say I was asking the correct one.

Look, we obviously both agree that boundaries of some sort are required, so it's not as if simply stating that is dangerous, or neccessarily leads to right-wing populism. What it does mean, however, is that all the questions you asked me above also need to be asked of you.

What do you think the boundaries should be? Who should they be set by?

At a national level?
School by school?
Classroom by classroom?
Pupil by pupil?

etc.

I didn't expect you to answer those questions!

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

One school I visited had the pupils stand behind their desks and lay out the contents of their pencil cases in front of them. If they didn't match the photograph of the prescribed layout that every teacher has a laminated photo of, they were whisked out of class - for "defiance" - before they got a chance to sit down.

That's the sort of "boundaries" we're dealing with in schools in 2021.

I agree that is mad. But this surely isn't representative of schools in the UK? There must be a happy medium sitting in between this position and one of complete freedom.

I'll be more specific. I think smart phones should not be permitted to be used on school premises.

 

[chilango]

Well I'd say I was asking the correct one.

I'd say, today, the moment you bring boundaries, behaviour etc. to the fore and start making that a central concern of what goes on in a classroom you are wandering squarely into a field of battle that has been meticulously prepared by the Right.

 

[tim]

I agree that is mad. But this surely isn't representative of schools in the UK? There must be a happy medium sitting in between this position and one of complete freedom.

I'll be more specific. I think smart phones should not be permitted to be used on school premises.

Why not? They are a useful research tool.

 

[Artaxerxes]

I agree that is mad. But this surely isn't representative of schools in the UK? There must be a happy medium sitting in between this position and one of complete freedom.

I'll be more specific. I think smart phones should not be permitted to be used on school premises.

If we're preparing kids for the world of work cutting them off from the outside world is certainly one way to ensure they aren't ready for it.

Unless we want them to work in a fucking Amazon dungeon.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Why not? They are a useful research tool.

So are school computers.

 

[chilango]

I agree that is mad. But this surely isn't representative of schools in the UK? There must be a happy medium sitting in between this position and one of complete freedom.

I'll be more specific. I think smart phones should not be permitted to be used on school premises.

It was a "bog-standard Comprehensive", didn't even claim to be one of these "strict schools". I'd say it's pretty representative.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

If we're preparing kids for the world of work cutting them off from the outside world is certainly one way to ensure they aren't ready for it.

Unless we want them to work in a fucking Amazon dungeon.

I'm more interested in cutting them off from hardcore porn and isis beheading videos. No need for that in the playground.

 

[chilango]

So are school computers.

Not if they're decades' old machines running on XP, where the whole internet is blocked except for BBC fucking Bitesize and everything has to be done through some buggy obsolete "learning platform" bought for a fortune from a mate of the Academy Trust's CEO.

I exaggerate, I hope, but you get the idea...

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Not if their decades old machines running on XP, where the whole internet is blocked except for BBC fucking Bitesize and everything has to be done through some buggy obsolete "learning platform" bought for a fortune from a mate of the Academy Trust's CEO.

I exaggerate, I hope, but you get the idea...

I think maybe both of us are playing a game of false dichotemy here. It really isn't a choice between 24/7 streams of anal fisting vs a 1994 IBM with a copy of Encarta installed. Or at least I hope that's not the choice we're facing.

 

[chilango]

I think maybe both of us are playing a game of false dichotemy here. It really isn't a choice between 24/7 streams of anal fisting vs a 1994 IBM with a copy of Encarta installed. Or at least I hope that's not the choice we're facing.

No. I'm conflicted in the issue of phones. I think they can be tools that cause great harm - I've had to deal with the aftermath on a number of occasions, to point of police involvement and beyond sadly) but at the same time they can be incredibly useful and are an integral part of daily life that young people need to learn how to manage.

...so, I don't think some blanket 'ban' or blanket 'permission' addresses this. It's a question of education, not boundaries.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Not if their decades old machines running on XP, where the whole internet is blocked except for BBC fucking Bitesize and everything has to be done through some buggy obsolete "learning platform" bought for a fortune from a mate of the Academy Trust's CEO.

I exaggerate, I hope, but you get the idea...

Probably not too much of an exaggeration

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

No. I'm conflicted in the issue of phones. I think they can be tools that cause great harm - I've had to deal with the aftermath on a number of occasions, to point of police involvement and beyond sadly) but at the same time they can be incredibly useful and are an integral part of daily life that young people need to learn how to manage.

...so, I don't think some blanket 'ban' or blanket 'permission' addresses this. It's a question of education, not boundaries.

Yeah it's a bloody minefield. I sense something is wrong with the world though, and my instinct is that a consistent application of structure would help. Depending on the details, of course.

What sort of education do you think could ameleorate the risk that unrestricted smartphone usage poses?

 

[Storm Fox]

One school I visited had the pupils stand behind their desks and lay out the contents of their pencil cases in front of them. If they didn't match the photograph of the prescribed layout that every teacher has a laminated photo of, they were whisked out of class - for "defiance" - before they got a chance to sit down.

That's the sort of "boundaries" we're dealing with in schools in 2021.

I mentioned this in the Birbalsigh thread, how is this going to prepare kids for uni, especially if this level of control is extended to 6th form.
As far as I see, a lot kids are going to either end rebelling with the new found freedom, or sinking as they are not at all used to not being spoon-fed everything.

The should be boundaries, but this is crazy.

 

[SpookyFrank]

One school I visited had the pupils stand behind their desks and lay out the contents of their pencil cases in front of them. If they didn't match the photograph of the prescribed layout that every teacher has a laminated photo of, they were whisked out of class - for "defiance" - before they got a chance to sit down.

That's the sort of "boundaries" we're dealing with in schools in 2021.

These will be the same schools that try to ban 'slang' as well, at the same time as they're systematically mangling the English language with this kind of shit. Not having a pencil sharpener is not defiance, by any recognised definition of the word.

It might however be a useful indicator of a kid from a deprived background or one whose parents aren't on top of them about school stuff to the point where they'd probably get decent grades with zero actual input from the school. Kids the school wants a pretext to offload, in other words.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Yeah it's a bloody minefield. I sense something is wrong with the world though, and my instinct is that a consistent application of structure would help. Depending on the details, of course.

What sort of education do you think could ameleorate the risk that unrestricted smartphone usage poses?

If parents aren't interested in setting boundaries with this stuff there's honestly nothing schools can do.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

If parents aren't interested in setting boundaries with this stuff there's honestly nothing schools can do.

Can we at least agree that smartphones in the classroom be banned?

 

[tim]

So are school computers.

School computers are badly maintained, clunky, clutter up the classroom and don't have much relevance in an age where learners bring their own devices with them. The result of petty regulations is to infantalise students and give those in authority unwarranted powers.

 

[chilango]

Can we at least agree that smartphones in the classroom be banned?

No.

I've had hundreds of perfectly productive, happy, lessons where the kids used their smartphones to help their learning (directly or directly).

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

It seems there literally is nothing we can agree on then.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Can we at least agree that smartphones in the classroom be banned?

With things as they are, this is not possible to enforce. I say that as someone who has tried. Some kids, short of physically manhandling their phone off them (which is unacceptable of course) there's just no way in hell they're even putting it away. You can send them out but that doesn't actually solve the problem, it just relocates it.

 

[isvicthere?]

I don't really know what woke is. What I do know is that every time I see someone declaring war on something (that's not actually a declaration of war as in shooting and dying) its been a total and embarrassing loss. Utterly routed in every regard.

I see no reason why this also won't end the same way.

"Woke" is another in a long line of hate terms the right lazily use in lieu of an argument (check also: PC, virtue signalling, tree hugger, do-gooder, feminazi, champagne socialist and, of course, "snowflake") usually to describe something vanishingly insignificant or, more often, entirely imaginary.

 

[chilango]

Yeah it's a bloody minefield. I sense something is wrong with the world though, and my instinct is that a consistent application of structure would help. Depending on the details, of course.

What sort of education do you think could ameleorate the risk that unrestricted smartphone usage poses?

Unrestricted? Self-restricted is better.

As a general starting point kids, like all people, enjoy learning stuff and "getting good" (in their view and the views reflected back at them by others) at doing stuff. A teacher can teach them how a device like a smartphone can help them with this, or hinder this.

Also generally, kids, like all people, like to "feel good" (happy, safe, liked, whatever). Again adults (including, but not exclusively, teachers) can help teach kids how smartphones can help with this, or hinder this.

Obviously details, exceptions, contexts etc. but if you start from here, rather than "OMG they just want to watch porn and attack each other" as your default you've got a place to start thinking about how to approach issues like this more positively.

 

[chilango]

With things as they are, this is not possible to enforce. I say that as someone who has tried. Some kids, short of physically manhandling their phone off them (which is unacceptable of course) there's just no way in hell they're even putting it away. You can send them out but that doesn't actually solve the problem, it just relocates it.

Kids of course will quite easily suss out ways around rules they see no benefit in following. Dummy phones to hand in, hiding places etc. etc. Even prisons fail to keep themselves mobile free. What chance does a school have?

 

[tim]

"Woke" is another in a long line of hate terms the right lazily use in lieu of an argument (check also: PC, virtue signalling, tree hugger, do-gooder, feminazi, champagne socialist and, of course, "snowflake") usually to describe something vanishingly insignificant or, more often, entirely imaginary.

I was in War on Want which was an excellent organisation until we made George Galloway our General Secretary after which it vanished into insignificance. Sadly, Galloway didn't.

 

[Orang Utan]

It seems there literally is nothing we can agree on then.

You could always listen to the host of people here who know what they are talking about having actual experience working with children in education