War on Woke: Conservative Cultural Campaigning

[ItWillNeverWork]

Christ.

Don't know much about this woman, but having very tight rules in schools is a good idea in my opinion. If your entire world outside school is chaotic, as is unfortunately the case for many people growing up in deprived situations, it can be quite comforting to have a school environment that is strict, and therefore predictable and safe.

 

[Sweet FA]

Don't know much about this woman, but having very tight rules in schools is a good idea in my opinion. If your entire world outside school is chaotic, as is unfortunately the case for many people growing up in deprived situations, it can be quite comforting to have a school environment that is strict, and therefore predictable and safe.

All schools are 'strict' in that they have rules - some ridiculous and petty; others less so.

This woman's a dickhead though.

The school’s 484 pupils study in an atmosphere of rigid austerity. ‘Demerits’ are given out for the slightest errors: forgetting a pen, slouching, turning to look out of a window during a lesson. Two demerits in one class equals a detention. “That’s another demerit… you’re too disorganized,” an English teacher tells one girl who’s struggled to find her textbook in the allocated ten seconds.

The school day is run with military precision. Everything, from lessons to lunch, is timed to the second, with the aid of large digital clocks placed in each room. Teachers often give their classes a timeframe in which to accomplish a task—“Ten seconds to take out your books and open them to page 32”—before counting down backwards. The transition between classes is also timed, and completely silent. A black line runs down the center of the corridor carpets, and children are expected to silently proceed either side to their next classes. Eagle-eyed teachers stand ready to reprimand those who walk too slowly. Every detail is designed to maximize the amount of learning time. In the student bathrooms, there are no mirrors, lest they distract the students.

A Day at Britain's Strictest School

Teachers hand out detentions for slouching. But the kids are happy.

time.com

 

[chilango]

Don't know much about this woman, but having very tight rules in schools is a good idea in my opinion. If your entire world outside school is chaotic, as is unfortunately the case for many people growing up in deprived situations, it can be quite comforting to have a school environment that is strict, and therefore predictable and safe.

Really dangerous argument this.

 

[Serge Forward]

And really fucking stupid.

 

[Orang Utan]

Don't know much about this woman, but having very tight rules in schools is a good idea in my opinion. If your entire world outside school is chaotic, as is unfortunately the case for many people growing up in deprived situations, it can be quite comforting to have a school environment that is strict, and therefore predictable and safe.

not if you spend your time at home frightened of making the smallest of mistakes
or if you have ASD/ADHD or other problems that might make you fidget, forget, squirm, make noises, etc

 

[gosub]

If she really does, perhaps there should be reparations paid to all the black nations from which the Empire stole from. And maybe (if there must be a monarchy) step down and let someone from said nations do the job.

Not really been following this whole woke thing, got enough trials and tribulations of my own at mo. But these black nations you want to pay reperations to, is there much intersection with ones that had shed loads written off a a while back?


They were good days, was upto my elbows in the cmmisioning and reselling of private jets back then and the debt write defo contributed to the spike in demand

The number of people classed as currently enslaved was lower back then too.

 

[Orang Utan]

 

[existentialist]

Don't know much about this woman, but having very tight rules in schools is a good idea in my opinion. If your entire world outside school is chaotic, as is unfortunately the case for many people growing up in deprived situations, it can be quite comforting to have a school environment that is strict, and therefore predictable and safe.

I prefer words like "boundaried". Setting realistic boundaries, and giving people the opportunity to learn to work within them is healthy, and safe. "Strict" too often implies arbitrary and punitive boundaries, and enforcing them by, er, force just creates discouragement in people who haven't ever learned what boundaries are.

All it does is to create the appearance - so much beloved of authoritarian types - of compliance, which is at best superficial. And (conveniently) marginalises and excludes those whose ability to conform is, for whatever reason, diminished.

It's a high-wastage system that doesn't even produce the result it's claiming for itself.

 

[Orang Utan]

Not really been following this whole woke thing...

Go back to sleep then

 

[pogofish]

Don't know much about this woman, but having very tight rules in schools is a good idea in my opinion. If your entire world outside school is chaotic, as is unfortunately the case for many people growing up in deprived situations, it can be quite comforting to have a school environment that is strict, and therefore predictable and safe.

Maybe you should read the long running thread here about her and her methods then?

Its back-up the top of the board right now.

 

[ohmyliver]

Don't know much about this woman, but having very tight rules in schools is a good idea in my opinion. If your entire world outside school is chaotic, as is unfortunately the case for many people growing up in deprived situations, it can be quite comforting to have a school environment that is strict, and therefore predictable and safe.

unless you're ADHD, or on the autism spectrum, in which very tight rules applied ridgidly and without flexibility, will, in all likelyhood, be very damaging.

 

[existentialist]

unless you're ADHD, or on the autism spectrum, in which very tight rules applied ridgidly and without flexibility, will, in all likelyhood, be very damaging.

Or shy/abused/depressed/anxious/disabled/in poverty. Etc.

 

[SpookyFrank]

strict, and therefore predictable and safe.

What if that strict culture bans many of the forms of self-expression you might need to process your emotions and experiences? Is predictable necessarily safe or can a place be predictably stifling and awful?

As someone else mentioned, schools which have good behaviour without draconian bullshit also have extensive pastoral care systems. That's not a coincidence. The thing that should be predictable is not seating plans or uniforms or the format of lessons, what should be predictable is a constant level of genuine care and support. That's what troubled kids will be lacking elsewhere and that's what a good school should provide.

 

[two sheds]

I went to a school in the 60s with excellent academic record and very strict rules on behaviour, hair length, school uniform and the like. Didn't stop me from getting bullied to fuck though.

 

[Storm Fox]

Or shy/abused/depressed/anxious/disabled/in poverty. Etc.

Or regarding the no talking in the corridors, just any student. What other area of life socialising is prevented for hours at a time (When there are other people around) Prison or the Military perhaps (I don't know) but not everyday working life.

The Tories: Students mustn't communicate throughout the day as it harms learning and productivity.
Also The Tories: People mustn't WFH as it prevents communication and harms creativity and productivity.

 

[gosub]

Go back to sleep then

Chance would be fine thing, borderline zopi dependant these days.

Out of that malarkey these days, (still doing the palliative) but those aircraft would be classed as knocking on a bit, ripe for trade in.

 

[ohmyliver]

Or shy/abused/depressed/anxious/disabled/in poverty. Etc.

true, that's not to say rules and discipline is 100% bad, I mean I did the Oxford entrance exam at my large inner city comprehensive, and was interuppted mid exam by a boy who had some how escaped his class, who was very keen to find out what I was exactly doing and why, which made the exam harder than it should have been.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I prefer words like "boundaried". Setting realistic boundaries, and giving people the opportunity to learn to work within them is healthy, and safe. "Strict" too often implies arbitrary and punitive boundaries, and enforcing them by, er, force just creates discouragement in people who haven't ever learned what boundaries are.

All it does is to create the appearance - so much beloved of authoritarian types - of compliance, which is at best superficial. And (conveniently) marginalises and excludes those whose ability to conform is, for whatever reason, diminished.

It's a high-wastage system that doesn't even produce the result it's claiming for itself.

Yeah I think this is pretty much what I'm getting up. Obviously going too far in any direction is going to be damagin. 'Boundaried' is a good word

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

What if that strict culture bans many of the forms of self-expression you might need to process your emotions and experiences? Is predictable necessarily safe or can a place be predictably stifling and awful?

As someone else mentioned, schools which have good behaviour without draconian bullshit also have extensive pastoral care systems. That's not a coincidence. The thing that should be predictable is not seating plans or uniforms or the format of lessons, what should be predictable is a constant level of genuine care and support. That's what troubled kids will be lacking elsewhere and that's what a good school should provide.

What forms of self-expression are you thinking of exactly? Care and support are not mutually exclusive with seating plans and uniforms.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Maybe you should read the long running thread here about her and her methods then?

Its back-up the top of the board right now.

I'll have a look, thank you

 

[chilango]

Yeah I think this is pretty much what I'm getting up. Obviously going too far in any direction is going to be damagin. 'Boundaried' is a good word

The issue is
Who gets to draw the boundaries?
Where do they draw them?
...and why?

Apply those questions to the likes of Birbalsingh and the 'neo-trad' movement in education and you get some pretty unpleasant answers.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

The issue is
Who gets to draw the boundaries?
Where do they draw them?
...and why?

Apply those questions to the likes of Birbalsingh and the 'neo-trad' movement in education and you get done pretty unpleasant answers.

I've never heard of 'neo-trad' so can't comment on that, but surely those questions have to be answered regardless of where you're coming from. My answer would be that qualified educators with a genuine desire to see students fulfill their potential should be the ones who get to draw the boundaries.

 

[chilango]

I've never heard of 'neo-trad' so can't comment on that, but surely those questions have to be answered regardless of where you're coming from. My answer would be that qualified educators with a genuine desire to see students fulfill their potential should be the ones who get to draw the boundaries.

At a national level?
School by school?
Classroom by classroom?
Pupil by pupil?

White male m/c Oxbridge graduates deciding boundaries for black female w/c teens? Is that ok?

How do you qualify "genuine desire"?

Who decides what a child's "potential" is? How do you quantify this? What's included? What's excluded?

It's incredibly political, ideological, classed, gendered, racialised and way too contested to not challenge and unpick.

 

[SpookyFrank]

What forms of self-expression are you thinking of exactly? Care and support are not mutually exclusive with seating plans and uniforms.

Well speaking would be one key form of expression.

 

[Sweet FA]

fidget, forget, squirm, make noises, etc

Be a kid basically.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

At a national level?
School by school?
Classroom by classroom?
Pupil by pupil?

White male m/c Oxbridge graduates deciding boundaries for black female w/c teens? Is that ok?

How do you qualify "genuine desire"?

Who decides what a child's "potential" is? How do you quantify this? What's included? What's excluded?

It's incredibly political, ideological, classed, gendered, racialised and way to contested to not challenge and unpick.

I'm afraid I don't have a detailed policy document for you if that's what you're looking for.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I've never heard of 'neo-trad' so can't comment on that, but surely those questions have to be answered regardless of where you're coming from. My answer would be that qualified educators with a genuine desire to see students fulfill their potential should be the ones who get to draw the boundaries.

Birbalsingh's schtick is to hire teachers with no experience who will be in no position to question the boundaries she draws unilaterally.

More generally there is an emphasis on 'whole school behaviour policies' which are dreamt up or bought in wholesale by managers and which leave actual teachers little room to apply judgement.

 

[chilango]

I'm afraid I don't have a detailed policy document for you if that's what you're looking for.

Of course.

...but my point is uncritically wheeling out "kids need boundaries" acts as cover for all kinds of r/w populist authoritarianism.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Of course.

...but my point is uncritically wheeling out "kids need boundaries" acts as cover for all kinds of r/w populist authoritarianism.

Would you say that kids don't need boundaries?

 

[chilango]

Would you say that kids don't need boundaries?

I'd say you're asking the wrong question.