US War veterans against the Iraqi War

[Bernie Gunther]

There's quite an interesting article here summarising the effects of combat stress. This is a matter of some relevance given the well-documented over-extension of the US military in Iraq.

If torture to gain information or to intimidate is allowed, even tacitly, it can become an all-too-easy outlet for combat stress-related tension and frustration, with steadily worsening consequences.

The more insidious and common form of this misconduct stress behavior is to react with excessive force or brutality to episodes of provocation. The boundary between excessive and prudent is a gray area. It is related to the magnitude of the enemy provocation and the likelihood of its continuing if not answered. Examples of overreaction include reacting to a single sniper or mortar fire from a civilian housing area with massive artillery and air attack, or going in to beat all the villagers and destroy all the houses.

It is difficult and frustrating for soldiers to adhere to strict rules of engagement, such as never firing into civilian areas until fired on and only returning fire with precision when the specific enemy has been located. It is especially difficult if the enemy is deliberately using such areas as sanctuaries and the civilians are tacitly or even explicitly siding with the enemy. Such self-control is, however, often essential to accomplish the national objectives in military operations other than war. To maintain fire discipline, leaders must instill and continually reinforce a sense of strong unit identity and cohesion that actively encourages and rewards correct behavior.

Stress-induced behaviors that impair fire discipline can also cause friendly fire casualties. In some cases, overeagerness to attack the enemy (perhaps resulting from the positive combat stress behaviors of desire for glory, medals, or promotion) may lead to tragic error. Too much arousal or anxiety may cause soldiers who are "on a hair trigger" to misidentify vehicles, to make errors in reading maps or grid coordinates, or to shoot first and ask questions later. There is a well-documented tendency for hypervigilant persons to misinterpret and even to misperceive stimuli in ways which seem to confirm their preconceived fears.

source

Is any of this sounding familiar at all?

 

[nino_savatte]

It certainly is.

 

[rogue yam]

Your insults, like your thoughts, are becoming quite repetitive.

The plain fact of the matter is that the evidence that RJ demanded was in the very post to which RJ was responding. Don't blame me for the number of stupid posts on this site. I'm not the one posting them.

 

[nino_savatte]

The plain fact of the matter is that the evidence that RJ demanded was in the very post to which RJ was responding. Don't blame me for the number of stupid posts on this site. I'm not the one posting them.

You tend to post most of the stupid posts on Urban. If you aren't chucking around words like "retard" and so on, you're lying your head off.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

actually it wasnt just the British media according to this Pilger article:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/pilger1.html

re: BBC pro-war - I have a very vague recollection of this, but wasn't the brother of Helen Boaden, News Director, a candidate in the last general election?

Not that there's any connection at all...

 

[spring-peeper]

Circle jerk.

It's been a long time since I saw a post with "circle jerk" in it.

 

[rogue yam]

It's been a long time since I saw a post with "circle jerk" in it.

It's been a long time since I saw one of your posts with anything substantive in it.

 

[nino_savatte]

It's been a long time since I saw one of your posts with anything substantive in it.

Pot-kettle-black.

 

[cemertyone]

You lie twice.

Ok then yam head...
recruitment to the US armed forces has dropped (esp reservists) in some areas by as much as 40%...
Name me a single republican Senator or indeed Congressman whos off spring are currently serving in Iraq. None of your waffle just plain facts to counter my argument...Oh and i note (as usual) you refuse to answer the question most posted to you...
If you love your country so much..why arn`t you over in Iraq defending it from the global terrorist!

 

[Streathamite]

Circle jerk.

so disprove ANY of it; in most professions, the approbation of one's peers is usually considered the most valuable opinion.
as you would know if you were really a 'doctor'. Or any sort of 'professional'...
tho' presumably, in your bigoted infantile mind, the ONLy professional opinion worth having comes from people who think exactly like you. do look up the meaning of the word 'pluralism' there's a good little lad....

 

[Streathamite]

You are a moron. The evidence is in my initial post. Unacceptable to whom? To the men of the Royal Navy!

OH REALLY??? that'll be - "an unsubstantiated, unquantified, uncontextualised, alleged straw poll, as reported on that 100% reliable source wikipedia ( ), apparently asked for the beeb to be turned off, because they featured more Iraqi reports than official UK armed forces ones, and so they got that bastion of quality reportage instead - sky! )"
and meanwhile, one of europes most respected print media, the FAZ, and a senior meejah academic, found same channel to be one of the most pro-war.
if you REALLY think that qualifies as 'evidence' that the BBC has been 'disgraceful' - and 'evidence' that wouldn't get laughed out of town ANYWHERE, , you need to learn what the word 'evidence' means, you utter fucking moron.
fuckwit.
jesus, thank christ you're not my lawyer.

 

[Streathamite]

The plain fact of the matter is that the evidence that RJ demanded was in the very post to which RJ was responding. Don't blame me for the number of stupid posts on this site. I'm not the one posting them.

fuck me I wished I lived in your state of self-denial. ignorant little prick....

 

[nino_savatte]

fuck me I wished I lived in your state of self-denial. ignorant little prick....

He reckons he's more sinned against than sinning. He probably thinks his shite doesn't stink either.

 

[Rentonite]

Cemerteryone
I would love to go but I am too old, but I may get to go as a contractor and hand out equipment (and make BIG bucks)
You assume that everyone that supports the war effort can go directly participate.
Such is not the case.
In the Anti War movement everyone that wants to can go down and join the chanting (America Bad America Bad America Bad)
But then there is no risk in that is there.
So, you bewail those that dont go, Yet YOU could go and join the insurgents.
Why dont YOU GO DO THAT?
I am shure they will give ya a gun and send you out to shoot at those evil Incompetent American Soldiers

You always complaining that everyone that posts anything against your ideas should go and fight.
Why dont YOU go and fight. You could do it!
Let us know how it is Really going .................
Send us a post just before you have your first encounter with American or British soldiers



You should Go...........

 

[nino_savatte]

Cemerteryone
I would love to go but I am too old, but I may get to go as a contractor and hand out equipment (and make BIG bucks)
You assume that everyone that supports the war effort can go directly participate.
Such is not the case.
In the Anti War movement everyone that wants to can go down and join the chanting (America Bad America Bad America Bad)
But then there is no risk in that is there.
So, you bewail those that dont go, Yet YOU could go and join the insurgents.
Why dont YOU GO DO THAT?
I am shure they will give ya a gun and send you out to shoot at those evil Incompetent American Soldiers

You always complaining that everyone that posts anything against your ideas should go and fight.
Why dont YOU go and fight. You could do it!
Let us know how it is Really going .................
Send us a post just before you have your first encounter with American or British soldiers



You should Go...........

"Too old"...that's your excuse - is it? You're just another armchair warrior who worships the military but has never, ever served. That makes you a hypocrite as well as a ignorant racist bullshitter.

 

[cemertyone]

Cemerteryone
I would love to go but I am too old, but I may get to go as a contractor and hand out equipment (and make BIG bucks)
You assume that everyone that supports the war effort can go directly participate.
Such is not the case.
In the Anti War movement everyone that wants to can go down and join the chanting (America Bad America Bad America Bad)
But then there is no risk in that is there.
So, you bewail those that dont go, Yet YOU could go and join the insurgents.
Why dont YOU GO DO THAT?
I am shure they will give ya a gun and send you out to shoot at those evil Incompetent American Soldiers

You always complaining that everyone that posts anything against your ideas should go and fight.
Why dont YOU go and fight. You could do it!
Let us know how it is Really going .................
Send us a post just before you have your first encounter with American or British soldiers



You should Go...........

Jesus wept... Ok from the top down then shall we...
You argue that " I should go and fight for the insurgents " but why would i ?. That would assume that i agree with the strategy they are persuing...WRONG.
I see no difference between the descruction they are bringing to the country and the even greater destruction that the US / UK have wrecked there. You see Rentonite i don`t see any moral or ethical differential between the destruction of Fiulah by the U.S. military or the car bombing sectarian war we are witnessing now.
As regards your claim that every time i encounter people of Mears and Yam rouge`s type my reposit to them is to " Go and fight ". well there`s really a very simple reason for that and in the case of these two individuals its based on their posts regarding the military and esp in relation to their invective regarding " U.S. vets against the war. And i would remind you that unlikw Mears and Yam Rouge these people have actually put their lives on the line as opposed to these two gung ho losers who are safe to prostilise from the saftey of their living rooms safe in the knowledge that harms way won`t come their way.
Finally, as regards your comments about me " having an encounter with British soldiers" i was doing that on the Falls Road and in Andersonstown from the age of 13 and am proud to say that i spent ten years in B.com P.I.R.A. doing just that and there are many of them not on this planet now as a consequence.

 

[Yossarian]

In the Anti War movement everyone that wants to can go down and join the chanting (America Bad America Bad America Bad)

You think that's what the US Iraq Veterans are against the war are all about? I'd have thought someone like you would have more respect for people who signed up to fight for their country - I guess not.

 

[angry bob]

am proud to say that i spent ten years in B.com P.I.R.A. doing just that and there are many of them not on this planet now as a consequence.

So let me get this straight.

You're proud of the deaths you've caused rather than any effect they might have had?

i don`t see any moral or ethical differential between the destruction of Fiulah by the U.S. military or the car bombing sectarian war we are witnessing now.

Presumably you mean they are equally immoral?

I dunno man. Not sure where you are coming from?

 

[Streathamite]

Circle jerk.

oh really? I accept you know little of the world of the professions - or infact, any grown up avocation - but please name me ONE profession where the approbation of one's peers and rivals in that profession is NOT given very great weight indeed.
The chickenhawk world, perhaps?

 

[zoltan]

Yammo

your posts are certainly amusing, if slighty unhinged.Do you really believe the stuff you post, or are you trolling in the style of a right wing attack dog ?

 

[Streathamite]

The plain fact of the matter is that the evidence that RJ demanded was in the very post to which RJ was responding. Don't blame me for the number of stupid posts on this site. I'm not the one posting them.

sigh.....I realise you ain't the sharpest, so let's do this s-l-o-w-l-y.
You presented as 'evidence' for auntie's 'disgraceful' behaviour, the fact that a majority of RN personnel on the Ark Royal voted to lose Beeb coverage as a protest against the Beeb going more by their own, discovered, sources in Iraq than by info they received by official, authorised Forces information suppliers.
Hre's the shock; THAT'S PRECISELY HOW JOURNOES SHOULD WORK, YOU MORON. A good journo NEVER trusts an official source - he always goes for corroboration, or primary info from unauthorised sources, and should always try for info from ALL sides, before deciding what to go with.
And even the ark Royal mob can't have a clue of whether or how the Beeb verified those sources.
By common cionsent, the Beeb were doing this, and their stringers decided they trusted non-forces sources rather more.
The fact that the ark royal crew didn't, does suggest the judgement of people who put their faith in Sky News!!!!
Entirely reasonable behaviour from a journo, and certainly not 'disgraceful'.
In the self-same link, we found an independent academic's study found them to be the most pro-war source. That's disgraceful, too, hmm?
Sailors, as enlisted men, have a right to be stupid - it goes with the teritory.
as you are too cowardly to enlist - what's YOUR excuse for being a complete moron?

 

[Streathamite]

Cemerteryone
I would love to go but I am too old, but I may get to go as a contractor and hand out equipment (and make BIG bucks)
You assume that everyone that supports the war effort can go directly participate.
Such is not the case.
In the Anti War movement everyone that wants to can go down and join the chanting (America Bad America Bad America Bad)
But then there is no risk in that is there.
So, you bewail those that dont go, Yet YOU could go and join the insurgents.
Why dont YOU GO DO THAT?
I am shure they will give ya a gun and send you out to shoot at those evil Incompetent American Soldiers

You always complaining that everyone that posts anything against your ideas should go and fight.
Why dont YOU go and fight. You could do it!
Let us know how it is Really going .................
Send us a post just before you have your first encounter with American or British soldiers



You should Go...........

how very, very conveniet that you are too old (tho' i kinda guesssed senility was no stranger to you.
let me spell this out, simpleton; I DON'T want ANYONE to fight in this crazy, pointless, tragic war. No brit, no sep, no Iraqi. not me, or anyone.
You - and mears, and JC2, and Yammie - DO want LOADS of people to fight; just so long as it ain't yourselves, and just as long as you're thousands of miles away.
Got it now?

 

[nino_savatte]

how very, very conveniet that you are too old (tho' i kinda guesssed senility was no stranger to you.
let me spell this out, simpleton; I DON'T want ANYONE to fight in this crazy, pointless, tragic war. No brit, no sep, no Iraqi. not me, or anyone.
You - and mears, and JC2, and Yammie - DO want LOADS of people to fight; just so long as it ain't yourselves, and just as long as you're thousands of miles away.
Got it now?

Mears, JC and yamster, all view this war as a spectator sport where two teams - one good and one bad/evil - are pitted against one another and are fighting for the survival of "our way of life". It really is as simple as that and US politics, while not being a struggle between the forces of good and evil per se, is regarded in a similar fashion: two teams on the gridiron slugging it out for the trophy; pick your team and cheer them on. It is much easier for them to see everything in this way as it doesn't require any critical thought.

Of course yammie sounds like an unreconstructed Cold Warrior much of the time with his use of the word "commie", though I seriously doubt he's ever met a real communist in his life. If he ever met one, he'd shit himself.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

It's been a long time since I saw a post with "circle jerk" in it.

It makes me miss PBman. He could circle jerk with the best of 'em.

 

[Streathamite]

go figuire.
do the math.
caa-aaarmies
tho I doubt even leadhead would be so utterly , embarrassingly moronic to write off the fact that the Beeb is the news organisation most highly rated by the greatest number of journalists WORLWIDE and always has been - as simply a 'circle jerk'

 

[Streathamite]

It does bolster my argument. The BBC was unacceptably disgraceful, and the others were worse. You're a retard. And by exactly whom is the BBC renowned?

even by your usual pitiful standards, this is the most laughably fuckwitted post i've seen in a long, long time. see my earlier posts in rebuttal, you subhuman braindamged neanderthal

 

[ViolentPanda]

It makes me miss PBman. He could circle jerk with the best of 'em.

You're saying you used to watch?

 

[Streathamite]

EEWWWW!!!!!

 

[Dandred]

You're a retard.

Pot kettle black....

And by exactly whom is the BBC renowned?

Have you ever been outside of the USA????

Hahahahaha.....

I can't think of any counrty I've visited apart from the USA that doesn't value the BBC. Christ, I'm in korean right now, and most koreans I know (some can't even speak English well) see the bbc as the best news source that they have. This is after your country has been here for what, nearly 50 years or more?

Has anyone had the pleasure to watch the "AFN" here?(u75) I used to watch it nearly everyday before I managed to get some decent TV here in Korea....

Let me just say, the AFN "American Forces Network" is the funniest thing I've ever seen, half the adverts on the station are for remedial cheque book lessons.

This is the offical TV station for the US forces

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

You're saying you used to watch?

LOL!

That reminds me of the Peter Sellers movie Being There. "I like to watch."