Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Ukraine

I accept that they're not, technically, tanks...but rather mobile artillery...but what evidence have you for the fake nature of the image? Do you have a link?

its clearly taken from an aircaft. Any enemy aircraft over an armoured invasion column would naturally enough be shot down, in fact wouldnt be let fly anywhere near it . Its therefore taken from a Russian aircraft. Its a Russian pic of a Russian armoured column somewhere else . Most likely in Russia during their military exercises.
 
Im calling shenanigans on that pic. That was definitely taken by an aircraft. Theres no way anything other than Russian aircraft would be buzzing over a Russian armoured column . Thats a Russian photo from its exercises in Russia, not tanks piling into Ukraine .

Another point. Those aren't tanks, AFAIK. They look like 2S7 Peonys - fuck-off big 203mm self-propelled artillery.
Thing is, Russia doesn't have more than a handful, mostly in museums, whereas Ukraine has more than a hundred, so it's quite possibly a picture of Ukrainian mobile artillery being deployed.
 
A lot of reports of this sort of thing in the early days of Syrias uprising, when it was still political (blond snipers etc). It's difficult to discuss seriously, these mystery-sniper allegations.Proper evidence would be nice, don't want to risk being called a *drum roll* Conspiraloon! Madly suggesting like a box of frogs that governments might do unpleasant and illegal things sometimes to each other. Why, that would be crazy tawk.

Ah yes, the "blond snipers" bollocks, where everyone conveniently forgot that a significant minority of Circassians just happen to be blond and blue-eyed. :facepalm:
 
Could be an idea to ask that IDF guy who took his squad offside sharpish when the shooting started and left his absolutely non anti semitic , honest guv, neo nazi <brothers> to their fate at such a crucial moment. Afterall with his military experience he should be able to have a fair idea of where the sniper was firing from.
As yet weve no other evidence of foreign military forces in the vicinity playing a role in the coup.
Former IDF guy.
 
well the Abby Martin non sacking is uniquely different to the policies of Fox News, BBC, CNN
Does someone like Paxman actually need to get up at the end of each programme and say "Well personally I believe X, Y & blah blah blah and what the UK government (who controls the BBC) is doing is wrong!"

Surely it's better to have more than one guest singing one point of view, and have the presenters acting as more neutral devil's advocates? I've just watched the relevant Breaking The Set programme and that's *all* it had - one talking head academic who was basically blaming Crimean situation on 'NATO expansionism'. It didn't have any other participants so all poor Abby was left with was trying to make a few incisive questions and then doing her spiel at the end. If anything it shows up how shallow the RT model is. maybe other shows are better? I don't know.
 
Last edited:
I don't really have to do anything here do i? Between the space cowboy and the bloke with the whiff of the Baathist cellar.

What's your role here anyway, don't have to do anything in order to achieve what, ensure all that nasty Russian propaganda does not threaten our cosy sense of ourselves and our place in the world? Don't have to do anything to ensure once again the Myth of the West can rest untroubled in its bed? Yes we are working to help out the poor lib/syr/ukrainians etc.
 
What's your role here anyway, don't have to do anything in order to achieve what, ensure all that nasty Russian propaganda does not threaten our cosy sense of ourselves and our place in the world? Don't have to do anything to ensure once again the Myth of the West can rest untroubled in its bed? Yes we are working to help out the poor lib/syr/ukrainians etc.
Yeah, skunk and scifi and not taking things seriously rules!! Clown. I mean clown literally here.
 
What's your role here anyway, don't have to do anything in order to achieve what, ensure all that nasty Russian propaganda does not threaten our cosy sense of ourselves and our place in the world? Don't have to do anything to ensure once again the Myth of the West can rest untroubled in its bed? Yes we are working to help out the poor lib/syr/ukrainians etc.
Odd thing is, you're bigging up humanitarian intervention here. You're a wee bit silly.
 
Are media reports of Russian troops, tanks, aircraft and helicopters in Crimea incorrect?

Russia is allowed 25000 troops in Crimea. Its also allowed 2 airbases with numerous aircraft. Some aircraft and helicopters arent just permissable, they certainly dont constitute an invasion . And theres been not much sign of them flying about since the first outbreak of furore and some footage of a few transports . Russias transports and military aircraft are allowed to fly into and out of those airbases.

Despite all the clamour from the Kiev junta , western governments and western media about a 16000 strong invasion backed up by tanks and airpower theres been absolutely no sign of that . All there has been a sign of is small groups of unidentified, lightly armed units of what describes itself as a local Crimean self defence force in light vehicles , no sign of tanks apart from that fake photo .

Now im pretty sure theres Russian troops among that lot, but as yet nobodys proven it . They could all be Russian Spetznaz. There could also be Berkut, former Ukranian Special forces. And Im pretty sure there certainly is by now. But nobody has even proven who they are as yet . Any Russian number plates can easily be explained away as donated to crimea on its request...light unarmed vehicles, no big deal .

So while Im pretty sure Putin is breaking the rules and blatantly interfering in Ukraine its after he sat back for months demanding the western powers stop breaking the rules and blatantly interfering in Ukraine. To the point its government was violently overthrown by neo nazis, and a junta installed by the western powers. Who we heard on the phone beforehand selecting amongst themselves exactly who the prime minister will be months ago . Which was Yatseniuk, who the coup has duly appointed Prime Minister.

So while I dont doubt Russia is meddling and physically interfering, nobody has proven that conclusively, or even at all. The invasion hasnt yet been ordered. Any carry on Russia is at here is pretty small scale and unprovable. It may be many things but its certainly not the all out invasion the west are shreiking about. Its a few officially unidentified guys in Balaclavas walking around laying down the law to any remaining Ukrainian forces.

Anyways, further developments on the juntas lies front. Their latest stunt was to claim the UN special envoy had been kidnapped by the Russians in Crimea. Reuters and Associated Press willingly took this latest mad claim from yatseniuk at face value and ran with it unquestioningly . BBC showed a bit more caution, given that obviously the UN werent demanding the Russians give back the envoy.
Then it turned out that hadnt happened either .

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...-crimea-remain-part-country-article-1.1711216

But remember as far as the u75 lefty sages are concerned its RT which is the problem here .
 
Ah yes, the "blond snipers" bollocks, where everyone conveniently forgot that a significant minority of Circassians just happen to be blond and blue-eyed. :facepalm:

It was more than that, not just Boris-looking folk wandering around looking befuddled in the midst of it all, but accents as well. Merceneers basically. I wouldn't spend any time on this because no evidence in evidence. Besides we ready know that in Syria the CIA and feeinds were shipping in dodgies and guns from all over the shop. Or is that just Conspiraloon bollocks?
 
Russia is allowed 25000 troops in Crimea. Its also allowed 2 airbases with numerous aircraft. Some aircraft and helicopters arent just permissable, they certainly dont constitute an invasion . And theres been not much sign of them flying about since the first outbreak of furore and some footage of a few transports . Russias transports and military aircraft are allowed to fly into and out of those airbases.

Despite all the clamour from the Kiev junta , western governments and western media about a 16000 strong invasion backed up by tanks and airpower theres been absolutely no sign of that . All there has been a sign of is small groups of unidentified, lightly armed units of what describes itself as a local Crimean self defence force in light vehicles , no sign of tanks apart from that fake photo .

Now im pretty sure theres Russian troops among that lot, but as yet nobodys proven it . They could all be Russian Spetznaz. There could also be Berkut, former Ukranian Special forces. And Im pretty sure there certainly is by now. But nobody has even proven who they are as yet . Any Russian number plates can easily be explained away as donated to crimea on its request...light unarmed vehicles, no big deal .

So while Im pretty sure Putin is breaking the rules and blatantly interfering in Ukraine its after he sat back for months demanding the western powers stop breaking the rules and blatantly interfering in Ukraine. To the point its government was violently overthrown by neo nazis, and a junta installed by the western powers. Who we heard on the phone beforehand selecting amongst themselves exactly who the prime minister will be months ago . Which was Yatseniuk, who the coup has duly appointed Prime Minister.

So while I dont doubt Russia is meddling and physically interfering, nobody has proven that conclusively, or even at all. The invasion hasnt yet been ordered. Any carry on Russia is at here is pretty small scale and unprovable. It may be many things but its certainly not the all out invasion the west are shreiking about. Its a few officially unidentified guys in Balaclavas walking around laying down the law to any remaining Ukrainian forces.

Anyways, further developments on the juntas lies front. Their latest stunt was to claim the UN special envoy had been kidnapped by the Russians in Crimea. Reuters and Associated Press willingly took this latest mad claim from yatseniuk at face value and ran with it unquestioningly . BBC showed a bit more caution, given that obviously the UN werent demanding the Russians give back the envoy.
Then it turned out that hadnt happened either .

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...-crimea-remain-part-country-article-1.1711216

But remember as far as the u75 lefty sages are concerned its RT which is the problem here .
Excellent, for you this started last november. Useful idiot is the term. Note the things that follow after all your 'sure' and 'doubt'. I mean wtf is this juvenile gibberish?

So while I dont doubt Russia is meddling and physically interfering, nobody has proven that conclusively, or even at all.
 
Does someone like Paxman actually need to get up at the end of each programme and say "Well personally I believe X, Y & blah blah blah and what the UK government (who controls the BBC) is doing is wrong!"

Surely it's better to have more than one guest singing one point of view, and have the presenters acting as more neutral devil's advocates? I've just watched the relevant Breaking The Set programme and that's *all* it had - one talking head academic who was basically blaming Crimean situation on 'NATO expansionism'. It didn't have any other participants so all poor Abby was left with was trying to make a few incisive questions and then doing her spiel at the end. If anything it shows up how shallow the RT model is. maybe other shows are better? I don't know.


you plainly dont know what your talking about . Abby Martin usually does left wing opinion pieces, thats what shes there for. Other shows like crosstalk by Peter Lavelle have 3 or 4 guests on at a time with seriously different views for a good row with few holds barred.
Oksana Boyko does the more standard serious type Paxman or Jon Snow interviews with as many anti russian or pro western guests as you can imagine. And theres other panel shows were the standard devils advocate approach is taken with a variety of guests with different opinions. That one with that right wing freak screaming about the kremlin and sochi before storming off being a prime example, and later with Tatchell. Its been posted here more than once.
 
Yeah, skunk and scifi and not taking things seriously rules!! Clown. I mean clown literally here.

Clown literally, as opposed to figuratively. Hmmm.
Far as I can see there's not a thing you have to say about any crisis situation with peoples lives on the line that is not governed for the most part from you massive fuck-off ego.

Not take things seriously? Just give me the fucking information man. I've not spent a lot of energy trying to keep up with this thread because for the most part its your usual urban75 sneery snarly ego-fest bollocks. Remarkably on-message for the most part. A releif to see at least a couple contrary voices hinting at the existance of a different point of view. Rumour has it that 'narratives' are just that, and that in amongst the gaps and the clashing opinions and the ad hominim attacks and Aprons Ego there might actually be some sort of Infor-fucking-mation
 
It was more than that, not just Boris-looking folk wandering around looking befuddled in the midst of it all, but accents as well. Merceneers basically. I wouldn't spend any time on this because no evidence in evidence. Besides we ready know that in Syria the CIA and feeinds were shipping in dodgies and guns from all over the shop. Or is that just Conspiraloon bollocks?

well we know for a fact that right from the get go those supposedly peaceful protestors somehow managed to kill a large amount of Syrian police right at the beginning, with one major ambush on them during week one standing out in particular after it killed dozens. That was definitely the work of professionals who were there right from the start. Not some outraged protestors.
 
Another point. Those aren't tanks, AFAIK. They look like 2S7 Peonys - fuck-off big 203mm self-propelled artillery.
Thing is, Russia doesn't have more than a handful, mostly in museums, whereas Ukraine has more than a hundred, so it's quite possibly a picture of Ukrainian mobile artillery being deployed.

sad spotter mode...

they look a bit more like a 2S1 series to me - its the rounded turret rather than the exposed gun workings of the 2S7, and on the 2S7 the gun barrel is much longer than the vehicle. not having a pop obviously, all these infantry chaps look the same to me...

either side have around 600 of the 2S1's, could be either - i think theres a form of light blue insignia painted on the turret in the pictured SPG's, perhaps thats some form of Ukrainian identifiter, but i'm no expert on such things.

much as i loathe agreeing with Casually Red, the picture doesn't look right to me - it's got 'publicity shot' written all over it, and old Vlad is still pretending that the 76th Airbourne Division is not in Crimea, so i rather doubt he'd be keen on news helicopters overflying his armoured columns and taking nice piccies...
 
Clown literally, as opposed to figuratively. Hmmm.
Far as I can see there's not a thing you have to say about any crisis situation with peoples lives on the line that is not governed for the most part from you massive fuck-off ego.

Not take things seriously? Just give me the fucking information man. I've not spent a lot of energy trying to keep up with this thread because for the most part its your usual urban75 sneery snarly ego-fest bollocks. Remarkably on-message for the most part. A releif to see at least a couple contrary voices hinting at the existance of a different point of view. Rumour has it that 'narratives' are just that, and that in amongst the gaps and the clashing opinions and the ad hominim attacks and Aprons Ego there might actually be some sort of Infor-fucking-mation
For the second time today you post that you don't know what's happening as a matter of pride. Clown. Literally and figuratively.
 
Clown literally, as opposed to figuratively. Hmmm.
Far as I can see there's not a thing you have to say about any crisis situation with peoples lives on the line that is not governed for the most part from you massive fuck-off ego.

Not take things seriously? Just give me the fucking information man. I've not spent a lot of energy trying to keep up with this thread because for the most part its your usual urban75 sneery snarly ego-fest bollocks. Remarkably on-message for the most part. A releif to see at least a couple contrary voices hinting at the existance of a different point of view. Rumour has it that 'narratives' are just that, and that in amongst the gaps and the clashing opinions and the ad hominim attacks and Aprons Ego there might actually be some sort of Infor-fucking-mation

I take it thats Juliet Bravo of the Thread Constabulary Special Patrol Group whos trying to lay down the law to you on what your opinion on Ukraine should be ? Is he telling you what TV channels youre allowed watch as well ?

Hell be kettling you next
 
much as i loathe agreeing with Casually Red, the picture doesn't look right to me - it's got 'publicity shot' written all over it, and old Vlad is still pretending that the 76th Airbourne Division is not in Crimea, so i rather doubt he'd be keen on news helicopters overflying his armoured columns and taking nice piccies...

to be more precise a single pic, as Putin has obviously confiscated all the video cameras in Ukraine as well.
 
I'll just leave this here.

1501135_390402751093642_756031212_o.jpg
 
Back
Top Bottom