Ukraine

[camouflage]

hanging out like guts through a chop in the midrif?f?

Your poetry is very pretty, have you considered showing it to a professional?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes, it really is no surprise that after a few years now and five billion dollars worth of spend polarizing Ukraines evidently somewhat delicate political culture...

Pfft.
What "political culture"? Every attempt to establish democratic politics has been met by interference from proxies for both the west and the east, just as with many other former Soviet states.

...the place has gone pop, the rules have been flung out the window, feral political movements are running around with slogans of romantic-fascism (the economics to come would be all neo-lib I'm sure) and Putin has been pretty clear about where he stands all along. If anything it's surprising and rather worrying that the leadership in the West is acting all surprised and outraged. One would have thought they had expected all this. For fucks sake if you will fuck about at least expect the shit to come of it.

Poke-bear, Poke-bear, Poke bear- oh! It swiped at me using its massive claw.

Ukraine was always going to "go pop", just as (in common with many other former Soviet states) it was always likely to have some manifestation of ultra-nationalism or fascism rear its' head. Ukrainian nationalism was a strong current in the early 20th century, when it fueled parts of the struggle between the Black, White and Red armies. After Sovietisation, it was suppressed. That it has re-emerged is unsurprising, just as the anti-Communism of some Ukrainians is unsurprising - many don't hate Communism, they hate what the Soviet Union did to Ukraine.

We know what big powers are like. Furthermore after the things the regime in Kiev were putting out it's no surprise that autonomous republic Crimea seems to have thought "hang on, what's going on here, don't like Russian speakers? But I'm mostly Russian speakers... not sure about this, Oy, Russia- step over here for a bit will ya?" Big fucking surprise really, even if that last bit has been garnished by the Rus themselves.

I don't feel the Russians are threatening at all because they've been entirely predictable all along, they're not the ones having wild adventures in other peoples politics in lands far far away from their borders all this time, we know who plays that game these days.

Well, perhaps they're merely more subtle about it - some "Military advisors" here, a small sale of S2A missiles there, some money everywhere...

 

[Pickman's model]

Your poetry is very pretty, have you considered showing it to a professional?

it's not poetry

 

[ViolentPanda]

Shekhovtsov's change is astonishing - from sounding the alarm over the rise of the far-right in Ukraine to circulating a farcical statement playing down their role - signed by nationalists and a handful of decent researchers.

Other academics who refused to sign have been ostracised for their principled stand. The World Jewish Congress came out against Svoboda last year, has something significant changed in the nature of this party since then?

Unfortunately, the WJC is seen as a US puppet by some. Their denouncing of Svoboda (ironic name, given their predelictions) may not carry too much weight outside of "the west".

 

[ViolentPanda]

hanging out like guts through a chop in the midriff?

Pork or lamb?

 

[camouflage]

Pfft.
What "political culture"? Every attempt to establish democratic politics has been met by interference from proxies for both the west and the east, just as with many other former Soviet states.



Ukraine was always going to "go pop", just as (in common with many other former Soviet states) it was always likely to have some manifestation of ultra-nationalism or fascism rear its' head. Ukrainian nationalism was a strong current in the early 20th century, when it fueled parts of the struggle between the Black, White and Red armies. After Sovietisation, it was suppressed. That it has re-emerged is unsurprising, just as the anti-Communism of some Ukrainians is unsurprising - many don't hate Communism, they hate what the Soviet Union did to Ukraine.

I agree, what Stalin did to the Ukraine was unconscionable, then again he was a right bastard. 10 million starved to death in Ukraine was it? In all my life, including crowds and festivals and busy days shopping in some massive high-street.... I don't think I have yet laid my own eyes on 10 million people (probably including pictures and videos of large crowds). 10 million people is more human beings then I have seen in my entire life up till this point I reckon. Makes you think.

Well, perhaps they're merely more subtle about it - some "Military advisors" here, a small sale of S2A missiles there, some money everywhere...

So you basically mean more skillfully, less inept, without the messy splatter or death-robots the Americans seem unable to engage in diplomacy without... that's good enough for me.

 

[Pickman's model]

Pork or lamb?

i was thinking more braveheart

 

[RosyFuture]

blighty does indeed have a chief rabbi as a quick google search reveals http://www.chiefrabbi.org/

while they may be like the archbishop of canterbury and thus of no relevance to anyone outside their denomination, they yet exist.

e2a: could you pls link to pages about any other chief rabbi within the uk. or within ukraine, for that matter.

Of course I know about Mr Mirvis (of the Commonwealth, so including Mozambique since 1995; not just either Britain or the UK), which is why I said Blighty "has no King of the Nation's Jews & Jewesses" (emphasis added) coz each sect has its own principal: there are Kings, &, given that some sects allow female rabbis, maybe Queens. Mirvis may have the grandest, pumped-up title, but he only represents some Jews & Jewesses, & not even all religious Jews & Jewesses. (Strangely there's a notion of an ethnic Jew, irreligious perhaps, but not of an ethnic Buddhist or ethnic Sikh.)

In fact some sects don't administer conversions to Judaism, & refuse to deem any convert as a Jew. And why? Coz they didn't plop out of a Jewess' vagina - doesn't matter how pious, how observant they are. Yes, it's that crazy. There are ultra-Orthodox sects, Orthodox, Messianic, Conservative, Reform, & even Radical.

UA, like any other country, including Israel, has multiple Regents: no sect submits its own authority to any other. Which is how it is in the Christian world, yes?

 

[Buckaroo]

i was thinking more braveheart

that post was offal

 

[Pickman's model]

Of course I know about Mr Mirvis (of the Commonwealth, so including Mozambique since 1995; not just either Britain or the UK), which is why I said Blighty "has no King of the Nation's Jews & Jewesses" (emphasis added) coz each sect has its own principal: there are Kings, & given that some sects allow female rabbis, maybe Queens. Mirvis may have the grandest, pumped-up title, but he only represents some Jews & Jewesses, & not even all religious Jews & Jewesses. In fact some sects don't administer conversions to Judaism, & refuse to deem any convert as a Jew. And why? Coz they didn't plop out of a Jewess' vagina - doesn't matter how pious, how observant they are. Yes, it's that crazy. There are ultra-Orthodox sects, Orthodox, Messianic, Conservative, Reform, & even Radical.

UA, like any other country, including Israel, has multiple Regents: no sect submits its own authority to any other. Which is how it is in the Christian world, yes?

you're barking so onto my little list you go

 

[RosyFuture]

perhaps you could give us a source for your claim about eu law. or is it only your opinion?

Ask yourself the simple Q: name the body in the EU that legislates?

 

[RosyFuture]

you're barking so onto my little list you go

Facts are facts. Don't let them make you behave irrationally.

 

[yield]

Turkey give permission for the US ships to enter the black Sea apparently.

A US frigate probably. They've got to hope it doesn't run aground like last month.

An American carrier battle group is never going to be "easy meat" no matter where they're situated.
They're also banned from entering the Black Sea under the terms of the Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits so it's not going to happen anyway.

 

[RosyFuture]

Hmmm, the Chief Rabbi in the UK may be merely the Chief Rabbi of a sect, but for the last 200 years, he's been taken, in custom, as "speaking for" all of the UK's adherents of Judaism - a "fact on the ground" eventually acknowledged by the place given the Chief Rabbi in the House of Lords.

Which, similarly, any Baptist or Methodist or . . . would say, 'what about our "fact on the ground"?' It's an example of false identity, isn't it - which doesn't make it true, just socially obdurate. Such is custom - esp. when times move on, such as continuing secularisation.

And then there's all the others who consider themselves Jews but are agnostic or atheist; & then all the peeps who are called Jews just coz of who their mother or father or nan was. Sometimes it's easier being the child of a Sikh or Buddhist or Christian.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Which, similarly, any Baptist or Methodist or . . . would say, 'what about our "fact on the ground"?' It's an example of false identity, isn't it - which doesn't make it true, just socially obdurate. Such is custom - esp. when times move on, such as continuing secularisation.

And then there's all the others who consider themselves Jews but are agnostic or atheist - & all the peeps who are called Jews just coz of who their mother or father or nan was. Sometimes it's easier being the child of a Sikh or Buddhist or Christian.

Jewishness does not reside merely in whether or not you attend synagogue. Doing so just makes you a Judaist.

 

[yield]

Ukraine says OSCE military observers to go to Crimea
Reuters KIEV/VIENNA Tue Mar 4, 2014

* OSCE countries invited to send observers to Crimea

* Week-long mission aims to defuse military tensions

* U.S. confirms to send two observers

Ukraine said on Tuesday that observers from a pan-European security body would travel at its invitation to the Crimea region, where Russian forces have taken control, in an attempt to defuse a military standoff.

"An OSCE mission has arrived in Kiev which will go to the Crimean peninsula to monitor the situation," Ukraine's national security chief, Andriy Paruby, told a news conference in Kiev.

Sorry if already posted. Can't see that going well.

 

[lazyhack]

Unfortunately, the WJC is seen as a US puppet by some. Their denouncing of Svoboda (ironic name, given their predelictions) may not carry too much weight outside of "the west".

Aye, but in this case it is the West who are completely ignoring Svoboda's background, so stuff like that is important.

 

[RosyFuture]

The Banderists have the same red-over-black as some Anarcho-Communists had a century ago, the evil polluting right-wing shit-sticks!

Diplomatic blunder: Germany are playing tonite, for the 1st time, in Bandera colours (v. Chile)

 

[RosyFuture]

Jewishness does not reside merely in whether or not you attend synagogue. Doing so just makes you a Judaist.

'You' or 'one'?

And what is a Judaist?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I've missed a whole load of pages on this thread. Can someone fill me in on what all the talk of "Jews and Jewesses" is about?

 

[ViolentPanda]

'You' or 'one'?

And what is a Judaist?

Someone who follows the faith of Judaism.

And either "you" or "one" is correct English.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I've missed a whole load of pages on this thread. Can someone fill me in on what all the talk of "Jews and Jewesses" is about?

A digression about whether a Chief Rabbi is a Chief Rabbi.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Diplomatic blunder: Germany are playing tonite, for the 1st time, in Bandera colours (v. Chile)

In case you're not familiar with the German flag.

 

[seventh bullet]

Covered Shekhovtsov a few posts back, he used to be a Eurasionist from Crimea and I assume he had some big fulling out with Dugin before buddying up with Yushchenko. I explains why he seems to Dugin and some Russian/Eurasionist conspiracy as the cause of everything.

He really over-eggs Dugin's influence. It's quite bonkers, really. Are you sure he was a Eurasianist himself? Certainly not of the kind that Dugin is.

 

[Casually Red]

Sergei Markov (on C4 News) claiming snipers in Kiev were Blackwater!

you havent exactly put a round through the heart of his point there.

 

[RosyFuture]

Yes, and no. If you are signed up to the European Convention on Human Rights, then you are then agreeing to be bound by decisions by the European Court of Human Rights. Of course, then the question comes 'what if a member state refuses to abide by an EU decision'. And the answer can be 'not much'. It's a weakness of the EU, which allows certain states to be in breach of EU rules with no sanctions forthcoming. Expansion eastwards has tested the EU in these areas and it has come up wanting.

ECHR is not an EU agreement: it existed before any of the EU's predecessors, 1953 in fact, Stalin freshly entombed; it's signed by Turkey, Russia, in fact almost everyone except Belarus & perhaps the Vatican.

ECHR established the court you mention: it has nothing to do with the EU or its predecessors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights

You referring to not carrying out an EU decision is precisely my point: it lacks legal standing, being simply a decision (unanimous or majority) made by governments - not by legislatures.

In fact sanctions (not always financial) can be applied by some EU states - & indeed this has happened. (In terms of violating agreements, the most egregious has not been east European but German, when it refused to keep its budget deficit less than 2% of GDP in the early years of the euro.)

So there's no 'no' concerning what I said.

But you digressed.

 

[Casually Red]

Radio Free Europe? Seriously? These people are even less credible than RT. And they're just slagging off the Russian media for doing exactly what the western version is doing...

This is like your Buzzfeed link earlier - what's the point you're making here?

his point is probably the same as it always is, you have to agree with him and nobody else otherwise your a cunt and hell follow you around endlessly on multiple threads hissily pointing that out , sniping and making cryptic commentary after all your posts until you submit, admit your woeful transgression ,self flagellate and worship at his altar of almighty intellect

 

[brogdale]

you havent exactly put a round through the heart of his point there.

Did you see the interview?

 

[Casually Red]

Did you see the interview?

no, otherwise i wouldnt be asking your further clarity than a facepalm

 

[RosyFuture]

Diplomatic blunder: Germany are playing tonite, for the 1st time, in Bandera colours (v. Chile)

In case you're not familiar with the German flag.

OK?

They've never been in red & black. Their 2nd strip is usually either green or black.

Added, a slight correction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_national_football_team#Historical_kits shows that they have used red & black, in 2006 & 2008 only, but never in hoops as worn tonite - they look like Banderaists living in Banderstadt (the xenophobic nationalists' nickname for Lviv).

None of the states making up the federal Republic are solely red & black. The closest one can find is between 1866 & 1945: the successor state to Prussia in the north, the Wilhelmine Empire, & the Nazi flag - but all had some white.