Ukraine

[butchersapron]

So the prez spouts hyperbole about "the return of Nazism", then drops in a claim about the 500 offices.
Oddly, little credibility has been given to his claim, and no non-acdotal supporting evidence has been provided, anywhere.

Note how reluctant he was to post that, revealing as it did that his posts are just reworded rt news lines.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Well, Der Spiegel has this:

"Revenge taken against the rich and prominent is part of that chaos. In the Kiev suburb of Gostomel, 20 assailants burned down an estate belonging to Communist Party head Petro Symonenko. A Toyota Land Cruiser and an Aston Martin Vantage -- a €129,000 vehicle allegedly driven by his wife -- were found in the garage."

The whole article is worth reading, and you can find it here:

http://www.spiegel.de/international...t-pitfalls-a-956585.html#ref=nl-international

Good article. Not really anything about the immolation of 500 constituency offices, though.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Note how reluctant he was to post that, revealing as it did that his posts are just reworded rt news lines.

But surely RT is a neutral provider of news?

 

[classicdish]

...The removal of official status from the Russian language is a bad sign...

This has now been vetoed.

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

This will be a bloodbath if they don't stand down.

 

[DrRingDing]

This will be a bloodbath if they don't stand down.

It's just front. Their balls are nailed to the floor.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

FFS. Had Radio 5 on for 2 minutes.

"we'll have a look at what Russias case actually is and if there's any validity to it at all"

Can you imagine them saying that about one of countless US invasions, let alone our own imperialist bluster?

 

[Pickman's model]

FFS. Had Radio 5 on for 2 minutes.

"we'll have a look at what Russias case actually is and if there's any validity to it at all"

Can you imagine them saying that about one of countless US invasions, let alone our own imperialist bluster?

there was in 2002/3 rather a debate about the validity of the us case for the invasion of iraq. there is therefore no need to make yourself look a wazzock on this particular issue.

 

[Idris2002]

 

[krtek a houby]

FFS. Had Radio 5 on for 2 minutes.

"we'll have a look at what Russias case actually is and if there's any validity to it at all"

Can you imagine them saying that about one of countless US invasions, let alone our own imperialist bluster?

Yes because the validity of US/UK backed invasions have never been questioned in the UK media. Ever.

 

[camouflage]

This will be a bloodbath if they don't stand down.

Very hairy moment, so that's what it looks like when cooler heads prevail.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes because the validity of US/UK backed invasions have never been questioned in the UK media. Ever.

even when you do come out with a good point it turns out to be a point someone else has already made: see my post #2408

 

[camouflage]

Yes Idriss, four seconds spent scrolling down the screen that I'll never get back but good you noticed Russia is big and powerful while Ukraine is relatively small and weak.

 

[Idris2002]

Yes Idriss, four seconds spent scrolling down the screen that I'll never get back but good you noticed Russia is big and powerful while Ukraine is relatively small and weak.

We're all friends here, no need to thank me!

 

[treelover]

I hope you're right, but the fact that Kosovo wasn't a party to the NATO treaty didn't stop NATO being used to bash the Serbs in 1999.

C'mon down 'downward dog'

 

[treelover]

That's true and the most significant thing about the Kosovo war (for me) was that it openly converted NATO from a clearly defined defensive pact into just another imperial coalition, ready to invade other countries. But Kosovo was part of Yugoslavia which was never part of the USSR so to some extent the Russians could turn a blind eye (not to mention they were close to a low ebb in their economic, diplomatic and military power in 1999).

The situation now is almost the reverse; the Crimea has never really been in the west's sphere of influence and is much closer to the South Ossetia case. The west will allow Putin to take it (albeit with a lot of public huffing and puffing) and probably always knew he would. The tricky bit is not the Crimea which is a done deal, it is the whole of the rest of the Eastern and Southern Ukraine - how will the new govt in Kiev deal with these areas? The removal of official status from the Russian language is a bad sign. And if the neo-nazis in the Kiev govt really start getting their way and being jerks, will they provoke further Russian intervention elsewhere? Then there's a real possibility of nasty Yugoslavia-style ethnic wars.

But at the moment, both the new Kiev govt and the Russians are playing it pretty cool as far as I can see. It's the western powers that are screaming and shouting.

Er, don't you recall the Russian race to the airport followed closely by western forces, to make it secure in their eyes? that could have turned nasty.

 

[krtek a houby]

even when you do come out with a good point it turns out to be a point someone else has already made: see my post #2408

You're determined to start an argument with me on every single thread, aren't you? I get it - you don't like me. You already made a point that I didn't see, hence my post. Good for you, now stop fucking derailing, will you?

 

[treelover]

He does it with everyone, he is an equal opportunities pain in the arse.

 

[Pickman's model]

You're determined to start an argument with me on every single thread, aren't you? I get it - you don't like me. You already made a point that I didn't see, hence my post. Good for you, now stop fucking derailing, will you?

i'm not starting an argument with you.

 

[treelover]

He had, in short, become part of the top-league of eastern oligarchs, despite his modest origins. With an estimated worth of $2.4 billion, he had climbed up to seventh place in the list of the country's richest people published by the Ukrainian magazine Korrespondent. He is not, however, mentioned in the list published by the Ukrainian edition of Forbes. Because the magazine had published several critical articles about his fairy-tale rise to riches and his friendship with Yanukovych's oldest son Alexander, Kurchenko simply bought the publication.
It was, however, a former journalist at his new paper who discovered 30 sacks in an underground garage in Kiev early last week. They contained shredded documents from Kurchenko's collection of companies. Prior to the discovery, VETEK employees had removed computers from the holding company's offices and destroyed their hard drives. The bags of shredded documents revealed contracts, legal proceedings and bank remittances, including the purchase of a motorboat for €2 million. Insiders have begun reporting about the wasteful and eccentric lifestyle led by the up-and-comer. The oligarch allegedly hired a celebrity chef from the West and paid him €100,000 for just one day's work. When Kurchenko didn't like what he was served, he fired the cook.
The oligarch was married, but also is said to have maintained a relationship with a Moscow television personality. He flew with his mistress across Europe in his private jet and they would meet for dinner in the Russian capital in a private section of Turandot, the famous gourmet restaurant.
His ties with Yanukovych were close right up until the end. Just two weeks ago, the National Bank of Ukraine propped up Kurchenko's Brokbusinessbank with a billion hryvnia, roughly equivalent to €84 million. The loan came at a time when Ukraine was facing bankruptcy.

How does a 28 year old become a billionaire oligarch, corruption, nepotism?

 

[kebabking]

...

ok, so its a little one sided i grant you...

worth remembering of course that in the game of top trumps, its not who's got what, its who's got what in the right place, in decent nick, with trained, equipped people to man it and the logistic train to keep it in action.

the reserves, for example, are pretty irrelevant - if we say it takes a week to mobilise reservists, and then 4 to 6 weeks training to get recent reservists into any kind of usable shape, then they only become a factor in the middle of April at the absolute earliest. Russia also has other concerns - a good proportion of its ready-to-use units will be in the Caucuses, and old Vlad will know that if withdraws them to bulk up Army Group Donnets he's going to be playing whack-a-mole with our bearded friends in short order.

Russia undoubtedly has military superiority - both in quantative and qualitative terms - but its not quite so over-whelming as the newspaper graphics suggest. Ukraine however has one crippling problem - some of its units, and its people, are going to be pretty unreliable given recent events, and that is going to make serious warfighting almost impossible.

being a staff officer at the Ukrainian MOD this week is going to be a pretty illuminating experience.

 

[Pickman's model]

He does it with everyone, he is an equal opportunities pain in the arse.

only to witlings

 

[rekil]

Bad week for RTE, first the eurovision fiasco, now this.

RTÉ was left embarrassed and “infuriated” after it suffered a technical glitch during its broadcast of Prime Time last night.

During an interview with Russian Ambassador to Ireland Maxim Peshkov on the crisis in the Ukraine the phrase “Irish Ukrainians, not Russians” was played in a loop for about 15 minutes .

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

there was in 2002/3 rather a debate about the validity of the us case for the invasion of iraq. there is therefore no need to make yourself look a wazzock on this particular issue.

So, the 2002/3 debate was framed as "Is there any validity at all?" was it? Really?

And Afghanistan? Support for dubious stuff throughout central America? It's a very long list.

Are you more concerned about calling me names than in speaking to actual points? Because what you seem to have so far is "10 years ago there was some somewhat more balanced discussion about something, therefore you are wrong and I can call you names".

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

He does it with everyone, he is an equal opportunities pain in the arse.

It's really effective too.

Yes because the validity of US/UK backed invasions have never been questioned in the UK media. Ever.

Again, the phrase I cited would not be used. It's a question of degree.

 

[Pickman's model]

So, the 2002/3 debate was framed as "Is there any validity at all?" was it? Really?

there was a debate about the validity of the case for invasion which as you may recall included sessions of the security council and a debate in parliament. how was it framed? it wasn't "framed", it took place in a wide range of different arenas.

And Afghanistan? Support for dubious stuff throughout central America? It's a very long list.

go on then, list these invasions in central america.

Are you more concerned about calling me names than in speaking to actual points? Because what you seem to have so far is "10 years ago there was some somewhat more balanced discussion about something, therefore you are wrong and I can call you names".

i spoke to an actual point and provided an example of it. you by contrast seem inclined to engage in bluster you cannot substantiate (e.g. countless invasions becomes support for dubious stuff in central america). if you wish to appear as something of a twat by asserting things which are not in fact true then go on. but it's me warning you you'll appear as such rather than me saying you are a twat.

 

[SpineyNorman]

How might one go about speaking to a point anyway? I've seen this term a lot in the post-modern academic wankery they make you read at university. I know how to address points and speak about them but thus far I've only ever been successful in speaking to people (and on one occasion a venus fly trap but I think hallucinogens played a part there).

 

[rekil]

Speaking truth to pints.

 

[Coolfonz]

can't someone please kill some fucking nazis. jesus. anyone got putin's email?

 

[Pickman's model]

can't someone please kill some fucking nazis. jesus. anyone got putin's email?

v.putin21@kremlin.ru