Ukraine

[butchersapron]

An update on that Levy piece i posted earlier in the week. This, from the piece, is being erroneously claimed as coming from Simon Pirani:

In a discussion with British leftists about Ukraine yesterday, the opinion was voiced that “anti fascism”, meaning opposition to the new government in Ukraine, is the priority, and that it would be “no bad thing” if the Putin regime put arms in the hands of “anti fascist militia”.

But there are no “anti fascist militia”. The European left should not use this crisis to indulge its own fantasies.Yes, we in Europe should do everything we can to help Ukrainian socialists and trade union organisations who have come under attack from right-wing nationalists and fascists, as I argued in an earlier post. But there is no question about where the greatest threat is coming from to working-class solidarity, to social movements, and to the attempts of people in Ukraine and Russia to shape their own future … it comes from Putin’s militarism.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Ich bin einen Weimarer

Ick bin ein chicken, Kiev.

 

[Mikey77]

No just been translating the Ukrainian press. But with the selective editing, not to sure whether it is the case I was being a little sarcastic, but every time I watch the BBC, CH4 etc

Standard practice in the UK. If you show anyone on TV who expresses a right-wing opinion on something like immigration, make sure you pick the 70 year old bloke who talks with a common accent and appears to have half his brain missing. Normal progressive people do not oppose the politics of UK journalists.

 

[treelover]

Russian anarchists/autonomous left types trying to organise A Peoples Assembly Against the War in Ukraine with three protests in Moscow, Voronezh and Petrozavodsk earlier today. News of how they went later i hope.

What happened, was it significant?

 

[butchersapron]

What happened, was it significant?

You can read about the Moscow action in the update i posted above. Most of the hundreds arrested - as expected/now normal - were given large fines in order to stop further protests or initiatives. When i get more news i will post it.

 

[treelover]

ok

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

What happened, was it significant?

No very small, one said about 400 protests which I think looked more like 100 and the other was along side a nationalist march which got drowned out. They don't stand much of chance due to the opposition trials. I posted a video earlier of the protests were one the guys got headbutted.

 

[tbtommyb]

John Kerry, with no apparent sense of irony

"You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th-century fashion by invading another country on a completely trumped-up pretext," Mr Kerry said.

"It's an incredible act of aggression. It is really a stunning, wilful choice by President Putin to invade another country. Russia is in violation of the sovereignty of Ukraine. Russia is in violation of its international obligations."

 

[teqniq]

just wtf

 

[J Ed]

He's off to Kiev tomorrow

 

[Mr.Bishie]

John Kerry, with no apparent sense of irony

Proper side splitting hypocrisy lolz

 

[where to]

really starting to see the fruits of the utter bullshit that has been reported on Ukraine in recent weeks.

lots of people coming to this story for first time with a totally bogus perspective on it, shouting hysterically without a clue of what really took place. this includes clueless prominent journalists and pundits. there are also cynical ones too, playing the game.

all very dangerous - both sides now totally at odds with eachother in interpretation, and perception of who holds moral authority.

this has already begun to manifest itself in this inane 'obama/ putin (okay, not yet) / cameron/ miliband/ whoever' is weak crap, which pushes them into making more and more pathetic boisterous statements and chestpuffing. (this in turn must give false hope to Ukrainian nationalists, who get more and more worked up too). where this ends is anyones guess.

anyone enjoying this needs a dunces hat.

 

[toblerone3]

Perhaps the US-led invasion of Iraq was justified on a trumped-up pretext of WMD?

 

[J Ed]

Dead on where to, I fear we are only beginning to see what will be a lot of dick waving and Russophobia in the coming days

 

[brogdale]

They can't say they weren't told...Obama warned Putin there'd be costs....

23.20 Buckingham Palace has announced that Prince Edward, patron of the British Paralympic Association, "has, on the advice of Government, cancelled a planned visit to Russia" to attend the Sochi Paralympic Games.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Perhaps the US-led invasion of Iraq was justified on a trumped-up pretext of WMD?

And as we know: two wrongs make a right.

 

[J Ed]

Article about the Swedish neo-Nazis who went to Ukraine

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/28/the-swedish-neo-nazis-of-kiev.html

 

[classicdish]

Perhaps the US-led invasion of Iraq was justified on a trumped-up pretext of WMD?

Remember there were 13 odd years of UN sanctions before the invasion. Doubt there's much chance of anything like that tho'.

 

[classicdish]

Article about the Swedish neo-Nazis who went to Ukraine

where?

 

[Gramsci]

An update on that Levy piece i posted earlier in the week. This, from the piece, is being erroneously claimed as coming from Simon Pirani:

Thanks for that link. Thought this was interesting:

Against what is Vladimir Putin directing this war? The story being told in the western media is that he seeks to undermine Ukraine’s new government ....

I don’t think this coalition, thrown together in the crisis that followed Yanukovich’s departure, is his main target. Rather, it is the mass movement that accompanied the Maidan protests, which brought ordinary Ukrainians into political and social action on a level unprecedented since the break-up of the Soviet Union. Above all, Putin fears the spread of protest, and popular participation, into Russia.

Not sure I agree with this analysis. Tend to think that Putin is well pissed off about the way EU and US have handled this. First reaction to toppling of government was that this was defeat for Putin. So he is flexing his muscles. He is a calculating political operator not to be underestimated. He is not afraid of using limited force. Also Crimea is important for Russian Navy. Its an area of strategic importance to the Russian state.

 

[ska invita]

where?

probably this
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/28/the-swedish-neo-nazis-of-kiev.html

 

[J Ed]

where?

Fixed now

 

[classicdish]

If Putin waits for the Presidential elections on 25 May what are the chances he will see someone elected President that is more to his tastes? Is there any great advantage in him making a 'move' (eg militarily) before the elections happen, beyond a little bit of muscle-flexing in Crimea alone?

 

[TomUS]

Remember there were 13 odd years of UN sanctions before the invasion. Doubt there's much chance of anything like that tho'.

I think there is a strong possibility of EU/US....& maybe UN sanctions. I hear the Russian economy is not in good shape at all. Massive sanctions could clobber it.

So, Putin will limit his invasion to Crimea..........I think.

 

[pocketscience]

If Putin waits for the Presidential elections on 25 May what are the chances he will see someone elected President that is more to his tastes? Is there any great advantage in him making a 'move' (eg militarily) before the elections happen, beyond a little bit of muscle-flexing in Crimea alone?

Realpolitik say's: whoever wins any election (western puppet or not and whenever), they'll need to come to him to get energy. Otherwise, the said president has a frozen electorate next winter.
Game, set and match.

 

[pocketscience]

I think there is a strong possibility of EU/US....& maybe UN sanctions. I hear the Russian economy is not in good shape at all. Massive sanctions could clobber it.

So, Putin will limit his invasion to Crimea..........I think.

Yeah, genius move that'll be. EU sanctions against Russia. Where the Eu industrial powererhouse Germany, gets 35% of its energy from.
TomUS... Keep on fracking

 

[free spirit]

And as we know: two wrongs make a right.

Not got a leg to stand on.

Lost the moral high ground.

People in glass houses throwing stones.

Practice what you preach

would also be relevant phrases to this situation.

 

[rekil]

that's old and shit sorry

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Not got a leg to stand on.

Lost the moral high ground.

People in glass houses throwing stones.

Practice what you preach

would also be relevant phrases to this situation.

That still doesn't mean that Russian military intervention into Ukraine is the right thing to do.

 

[Mikey77]

That still doesn't mean that Russian military intervention into Ukraine is the right thing to do.

No, but perhaps it's a lesser evil than having NATO in a country with a big Russian minority. Once they join NATO there is no going back. That is ultimately where this all goes.