Ukraine

[treelover]

This was reported as "a clash between protesters" on either ITV or Skynews just now. (!) It's a bunch of captured euromaidan supporters being led through a gauntlet of thumps in Kharkov.

Spoiler

There really does seem to be a certain demographic involved in these encounters, these are big university towns but students, radicals, etc seem remarkably absent

 

[hipipol]

i don't understand why you'd raise something here and then refuse to discuss it on the thread.

Chinas geopolitical view will not impact directly in the currently unfolding drama - it probably pertains to its aftermath

 

[laptop]

Chinas geopolitical view will not impact directly in the currently unfolding drama - it probably pertains to its aftermath

And the aftermath is what Paul Mason is writing about.

That may not be the article you wanted to read, but it's the one you have to read.

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

There really does seem to be a certain demographic involved in these encounters, these are big university towns but students, radicals, etc seem remarkably absent

I the impression they do a little selective editing, Russian news likes to focus on the fascists and European news like to focus on the elderly people waving Russian flags. Anyway Serhiy Zhadan the Ukrainian poet was one of the ones beaten up and the guy who raised the Russian flag was quite young, not to sure if he was a student but he certainly looked like one with those arty "defence of Sevastopol" photos http://lifenews.ru/news/128225, his now fled to Russia.

 

[elbows]

Bwah:

Ukraine's economic woes are a reminder of how challenging the process of economic transition can be, notes our chief business correspondent Linda Yueh. In her latest blog, she says none of the key numbers look pretty more than two decades after Ukraine became a market economy.

Challenging. Yeeeesss.

 

[treelover]

I the impression they do a little selective editing, Russian news likes to focus on the fascists and European news like to focus on the elderly people waving Russian flags. Anyway Serhiy Zhadan the Ukrainian poet was one of the ones beaten up and the guy who raised the Russian flag was quite young, not to sure if he was a student but he certainly looked like one with those arty "defence of Sevastopol" photos http://lifenews.ru/news/128225, his now fled to Russia.

Thanks for that, are you in The Ukraine?

 

[Theisticle]

Good blog, again: http://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2014/03/02/putins-pyrrhic-crimea-campaign/

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

Thanks for that, are you in The Ukraine?

No just been translating the Ukrainian press. But with the selective editing, not to sure whether it is the case I was being a little sarcastic, but every time I watch the BBC, CH4 etc I see some little old granny waving a Russian flag. The amateur footage always seems to show a more diverse crowd.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Good blog, again: http://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2014/03/02/putins-pyrrhic-crimea-campaign/

I’d expect targeted bans and asset-freezes on officials, visa restrictions and even potentially targeted sanctions against Russian corporations. This is already being adverted by the likes as Edward Lucas and Michael Weiss, and I would imagine it would have a great deal more traction if Crimea were forcible wrested from Ukraine. There is no way round it, the most powerful weapon against the Kremlin is one targeting the elites on which it depends.

Makes a lot of sense.

 

[hipipol]

And the aftermath is what Paul Mason is writing about.

That may not be the article you wanted to read, but it's the one you have to read.

Have to read?
In order to be certain that I do not agree you mean?

 

[hipipol]

And the aftermath is what Paul Mason is writing about.

That may not be the article you wanted to read, but it's the one you have to read.

Whatever may be said on the surface, China has a deep distrust of "Cult of Personality" leaderships knowing well how quickly it changes once that personality is no longer able to exercise control. Mao managed to kill millions of his own people and the current leadership are well aware of that so will pay lip service but are actually much more enmeshed in the world economy than Russia - if the Yanks get crushed then China loses much - the Chinese govt outwardly state than 7.5% is the needed growth rate for their economy to provide for the "needs of the people" - privately they know that around 5% is manageable to prevent mass unrest - examples
The two only signed the border deal in 2008 - doubt its the last word - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict
This is simply some bullets and observations
As for its action in an "economic war"
It does not import Russian oil or gas but it does have a huge direct link to the west via its trading counterparties - the idea that it would bring internal chaos with factories closing and even more riots, etc simply to spite the west is simplistic
Chinas leadership for all its venal failings is extremely pragmatic
Expect them to stand back and do fuck all

 

[brogdale]

Now they know that the UK state really means business..

17:27:
In protest at the crisis over Ukraine, UK ministers will not attend the Sochi Paralympic Games later this week, UK Prime Minister David Cameron has announced. Hetweeted: "Because of the serious situation in Ukraine, [Foreign Secretary] @WilliamJHague & I believe it would be wrong for UK Ministers to attend the Sochi Paralympics."

I bet Putin retaliates by saying he'll not be going to Glasgow's games in July.

 

[goldenecitrone]

The newly appointed head of Ukraine's navy has sworn allegiance to the Crimea region, in the presence of its unrecognised pro-Russian leader.

Can't beat loyalty.

 

[teqniq]

In Kiev, an Israeli army vet led a street-fighting unit

(JTA) — He calls his troops “the Blue Helmets of Maidan,” but brown is the color of the headgear worn by Delta — the nom de guerre of the commander of a Jewish-led militia force that participated in the Ukrainian revolution.
Under his helmet, he also wears a kippah.
Delta, a Ukraine-born former soldier in the Israel Defense Forces, spoke to JTA Thursday on condition of anonymity. He explained how he came to use combat skills he acquired in the Shu’alei Shimshon reconnaissance battalion of the Givati infantry brigade to rise through the ranks of Kiev’s street fighters.
He has headed a force of 40 men and women — including several fellow IDF veterans — in violent clashes with government forces.
Several Ukrainian Jews, including Rabbi Moshe Azman, one of the country’s claimants to the title of chief rabbi, confirmed Delta’s identity and role in the still-unfinished revolution....
.....As platoon leader, Delta says he takes orders from activists connected to Svoboda, an ultra-nationalist party that has been frequently accused of anti-Semitism and whose members have been said to have had key positions in organizing the opposition protests.
“I don’t belong [to Svoboda], but I take orders from their team. They know I’m Israeli, Jewish and an ex-IDF soldier. They call me ‘brother,’” he said. “What they’re saying about Svoboda is exaggerated, I know this for a fact. I don’t like them because they’re inconsistent, not because of [any] anti-Semitism issue.”
The commanding position of Svoboda in the revolution is no secret, according to Ariel Cohen, a senior research fellow at the Washington D.C.-based Heritage Foundation think tank....

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Heritage Foundation?

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

Can't beat loyalty.

I don't think he had an option, have you seen the strength of their navy, they even sent two anti-submarine warships to take out that one Ukrainian submarine http://www.globalfirepower.com/coun...sia&country2=Ukraine&Submit=Compare+Countries.

 

[where to]

Can't beat loyalty.

I wouldn't be too quick to judge.

 

[laptop]

Chinas leadership for all its venal failings is extremely pragmatic
Expect them to stand back and do fuck all

They are extremely pragmatic, and are reputed to consider the rest of the world as a nuisance to be arranged around the (perceived) interests of China.

All Paul Mason referred to was the possibility that "China backs... Russia". Pragmatically. In the aftermath.

 

[butchersapron]

The union response to right sector over reaching themselves with their announcement about taking the unions under their control?

I thought that looked like what was going on in the videos copliker had linked to

The union response to right sector over reaching themselves with their announcement about taking the unions under their control?

I thought that looked like what was going on in the videos copliker had linked to

As suspected, this account has been vigorously contested - not least by a member of the Autonomous Workers' Union. If anyone wants to talk to someone from that group they should have a look at this chap.

 

[where to]

what do people think then, will they move on to Eastern Ukraine?

 

[sunny jim]

Can't beat loyalty.

Better than having loyalty to some fascist fuckwits.

 

[classicdish]

Better than having loyalty to some fascist fuckwits.

You think things would be improved if the Ukrainian army to start getting involved on its own initiative in the politics of what's going on?

 

[sunny jim]

You think things would be improved if the Ukrainian army to start getting involved on its own initiative in the politics of what's going on?

No, I think it'd be better if they didn't fight for a regime thats got fascists in control of defence, law and order and also deputy prime minister.

 

[agricola]

John Kerry attempts to defuse the situation, with a bit of humour:

"You just don't in the 21st-Century behave in 19th-Century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped-up pretext"

 

[Theisticle]

Fuck sake. Idiots.

 

[classicdish]

No, I think it'd be better if they didn't fight for a regime thats got fascists in control of defence, law and order and also deputy prime minister.

So you want the Ukrainian army to say who is in power? Or just go on strike and let everyone else just fight it out? Or what exactly?

 

[Pickman's model]

Fuck sake. Idiots.

exhausting is when you've done an honest day's work, something hugo rifkind would know nothing about

 

[sunny jim]

So you want the Ukrainian army to say who is in power? Or just go on strike and let everyone else just fight it out? Or what exactly?

Anything but fight for fascists would be great.

 

[J Ed]

Fuck sake. Idiots.

We're all fascists now

 

[laptop]

We're all fascists now

Ich bin einen Weimarer