Ukraine
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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Eastern-Odyssey
Active Member
Good old BBC, trust them to be fair and unbiased. Not only does it take a Russian invasion to report on the far right parties in the coup, but they still manage to spin the story in favour of Western interests.
"The people who brought down the government were overwhelmingly ordinary Ukrainians"
"But the most organised and most affective were a small number of far right groups, when it came to confrontations with police it was often nationalists that were the loudest and most violent"
Good bit of news spin, he seems to contradict himself because on the one hand his claiming the protests were mainly ordinary Ukrainians, who overthrew the government and on the other hinting that the overthrow of the government probably wouldn't have been successful without the involvement of the nationalists.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
That's a bit arse upwards. First the will of the people (elections and or referendums) then the diplomacy to facilitate their will.
That was all constitutionally intact until the non democratic overthrow.
The current interim government ( supported by the west) will only further project a skewed outcome. If common sense were to prevail some kind of roll back needs to happen first to restore democracy.
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RosyFuture
will baser instincts win out?
Which leaves just one thing to agree on, the wall. Why don't we start with the 9 mile one for the Crimea? Then we can roll it out, as it were, for the big one.
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SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
They managed to live together in a 'democracy' for 20+ years prior to this. And I'd say that the last thing they need is for that great civilising force 'the west' and Russia to effectively decide their fate for them - shouldn't Ukrainians get a say in what options are put on the table? In your scenario they wouldn't even get the chance to vote for anything unless 'the west' (lol) and Russia already agreed to it.
And which Ukrainian diplomats should be consulted? The ones appointed by the corrupt, authoritarian pre-coup constitutional government or the ones appointed by the government installed by the recent fascist-friendly coup?
SpineyNorman
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Which leaves just one thing to agree on, the wall. Why don't we start with the 9 mile one for the Crimea? Then we can roll it out, as it were, for the big one.
More Berlin than Jerusalem IMO - antifascist rampart!
SpineyNorman
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From the Hundred Year War to the Crimea
With the lance and the musket and the Roman spear
With the lance and the musket and the Roman spear
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
All this breezy talk of 'partition' is fucking me off. The cheerleaders for the Kiev government are desperate to hide the nasty mess created by their nationalist coup under the carpet. It ignores the fact that the history of such partitions are very bloody, many 'ethnic' russians see themselves as Ukrainian first and foremost (and had no time for Yanukovych), and that these people do not conveniently live in one area but are spread all over. As far as I am aware there is no history of significant tensions between russian and ukrainian speakers - but, between them, the ultra nationalists in Kiev and Putins shit stirring may be about to change all that.
seventh bullet
sovietwave
This is only anecdotal but my Russian friend mentioned a few post back (just a 'normal,' not political) regards the Maidan as a minority 'freakshow' and understands most Ukrainian nationals whether ethnically Russian or not would want a peaceful end to this.
Freakshow is probably how she would describe Casually Red's crude Putin love.
rekil
to menny cranks
I'd wonder what the Ukrainian army top brass thinks about taking orders from these Svoboda and Right Sector no marks.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's not a pinch of salt that's needed, simply the same critical awareness of motivations and basic interrogation of sources that you should apply to anyone. Not simple link free parroting of what RT are saying - which is what at least 80% of the last few days posts from Comical R are.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Exactly, I always take a peek at RT along with many other sources but RT is and shall probably remain one of the most blatantly skewed.
It does get quite comical at times.
It's a rare exception but honestly on this issue I would say that RT is as skewed as the Graunid and the BBC.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Paul Mason says that this will all herald the end of globalisation http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/russian-invasion-ukraine-push-west-economic-war/441
In this Brave New World of Self-Determination & Impending War, life just carries on:
A newly married couple kiss under the statue of Lenin in Simferopol yesterday.
As they say, there's never been a better time to be a socialist or up on a plinth gazing down on the happy couples.
And people thought the post-Soviet world was grim & devoid of the pleasures & excitement of life?
Crisis? What crisis?
I was going to post that but this is a serious thread, but she is going to be mortified when she sees that picture, its very revealing..
https://twitter.com/lindseyhilsum
I see these creeps have made a comeback since the end of the Soviet Union.
Eastern-Odyssey
Active Member
from James Mates, ITV, reputable source?
The Ukraine military just released a statement: The Ukraine military in the Crimea welcomes journalists based in the Crimea admission to Ukrainian military basses to objectively highlight the situation around Ukraine's bases: http://www.mil.gov.ua/index.php?lang=ua&part=news&sub=read&id=32765.
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
Presumably they'll still be nice to the journalists when they defect to Putin?
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Seems a bit of a stretch to conclude that.
This crisis does raise some pretty large questions about the early 21st Century neo-liberal 'consensus' though.
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