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Ukraine

But it was you who called it shit. Why did you call it shit? How can you be making sense?

He said that in response to a shit article in the guardian. There is a thread on this site about the guardian being shit (think it's called why the guardian is going down the pan or something) and I assume he was meaning it should be posted there so in future we can draw on it when assessing the shitness of the guardian.

As for the best threads - this is one of those times when urban really comes into its own, I've been unable to find a better source for links to good information and decent analysis (both on the thread and in articles linked to). If there's a better thread for the Ukraine crisis on the internet I've not been able to find it. I like to think I'm reasonably well informed on international current affairs but without this thread I'd probably only just have found out about the extent of involvement and influence of the far right on what I guess we should now be calling the Kiev government.
 
Yeah too right, Norman. This thread has been a brilliant source of information. It's been difficult to keep up and I'm not sure if I completely understand the situation but I've certainly been made well aware of the fash involvement in all this. In fact rarely have I seen such blatant omissions from the mainstream western media than I have in this situation. It's been totally glossed over, except for the odd mention and that newsnight report that barely told you anything, but then I guess that's no surprise when their side have gotten into bed with fascists. It's not really something you'd wanna broadcast.
 
Imperialist BBC have vid of Kharkiv baying mob, the one that presumably abused the 14 & 15 year-old boys:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400276

Nice to see that pro-ethnic Russian Ukrainians are equal opportunity abusers, the start of the vid shows a man of restricted height, erstwhile a dwarf, getting in on the action, showing that prejudice has its limits.

There are also a number of women amongst the few thousand crowd of ethno-patriots.

Just after Dimitri the Dwarf there's a shot of blood dripping from the long stave of an activist, an occupier of the square, someone who believes in enacting the participatory democracy lauded by critics of boring liberal democracy, the political way of life that often yields 20% abstention rates in national elections, the decried apathetic populace, switched-off by relative affluence, the famed culture of contentment. By contrast these peeps are rising up, fighting, revolting, true rebels against authority, driving the police from the streets & the squares (maybe the housing estates too), saying enough is enough, the people in charge, not the pigs & the suits.

There's nothing quite like the masses-in-motion, the people self-organising, workers being spontaneous, being autonomous, showing a lead without leaders, getting off their asses & showing the world what they want as the good life. They give a whole new meaning to what it is to be an activist, an interested citizen, part of a mobilised people, a fighter against apathy & passivity.
 
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There's nothing quite like the masses-in-motion, the people self-organising, workers being spontaneous, being autonomous, showing a lead without leaders, getting off their asses & showing the world what they want as the good life. They give a whole new meaning to what it is to be an activist, an interested citizen, part of a mobilised people, a fighter against apathy & passivity.

Ukraine: The far-right groups patrolling Kiev

Yes, autonomous fascism in motion is a wonderful sight to behold... All Hail the Nazi Autonomes on both sides!

Down with imperialist pig dogs of BBC and Guardian!


Strokes cat and waits for arrival of John McCain...
 
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As for the best threads - this is one of those times when urban really comes into its own, I've been unable to find a better source for links to good information and decent analysis (both on the thread and in articles linked to). If there's a better thread for the Ukraine crisis on the internet I've not been able to find it. I like to think I'm reasonably well informed on international current affairs but without this thread I'd probably only just have found out about the extent of involvement and influence of the far right on what I guess we should now be calling the Kiev government.
Too little from the likes of love detective and way too much from Argentina dictatorship backer guy imo.
 
A mate just shared this, dunno who saw fit to put this on the internet but it seems to be some kind of Russian liberal types take on it. Can't say for sure and can't be bothered to check though, cos sleep.

http://net.abimperio.net/node/3143/

Has anyone seen any coverage at all by the way that has focused on how the people in Russia feel about Putin's escalation and the potential conflict on their borders?
 
Urban75 people rightly bemoan imperialist mainstream media for having chosen to ignore the xenophobic nationalism that those journos knew was at the heart of Maidan protest. Saturday British imperialist MSM seemed to change tack somewhat. But all this was known in the mainstream even almost 6 weeks ago, as shown by this article from the Nation, leftish friend, in the US context, of the Democratic Party:
http://www.thenation.com/article/178013/ukrainian-nationalism-heart-euromaidan# Alec Luhn, Tu 21Jan14

Excerpts to give flavour:

title: “The Ukrainian Nationalism at the Heart of ‘Euromaidan’ Coverage focused on the call for European integration has largely glossed over the rise in nationalist rhetoric that has led to violence”

“Spearheading the clashes with police was Right Sector, a group with ties to far-right parties including the Patriots of Ukraine and Trident, which BBC Ukraine reported is largely comprised of nationalist football fans. In a statement the next day, the group claimed credit for Sunday’s unrest and promised to continue fighting until President Viktor Yanukovich stepped down.” - that mission accomplished

“'Two months of unsuccessful tiptoeing about under the leadership of the opposition parties showed many demonstrators they need to follow not those who speak sweetly from the stage, but rather those who offer a real scenario for revolutionary changes in the country. For this reason, the protest masses followed the nationalists,' the statement read.” - & who could say Right Sektor didn't get that right too?

“The surge in violence sparked by Right Sector has revealed how uncritical and undiscerning most of the media has been of the far-right parties and movements that have played a leading role in the 'Euromaidan,' [. . .] Protest coverage focused on the call for European integration and the struggle against the Yanukovich regime has largely glossed over the rise in nationalist rhetoric, often chauvinist, that has led to violence not just against police, but also against left-wing activists.”

“[Svoboda] also has revived three slogans originating in the Ukrainian nationalist movement of the 1930s that have become the most popular chants at Euromaidan. Almost all speakers on Independence Square — even boxer-turned-opposition-leader Vitaly Klitschko, who has lived mostly in Germany and has a US residence permit — start and end with the slogan, 'Glory to Ukraine!,' to which the crowd responds 'To heroes glory!' Two other nationalist call-and-response slogans often heard on the square are 'Glory to the nation! Death to enemies!' and 'Ukraine above all!'”

“Before [2012 . . . Svoboda] had come to dominate regional parliaments in three provinces in the largely Ukrainian-speaking west of the country. In last year’s elections, Svoboda notably finished second in cosmopolitan, Russian-speaking Kiev.” (this, & hereafter, my emphases)

Interesting point about an apparent contradiction in Svoboda (& other xenophobic nationalists):
“How can the slogan 'Ukraine above all!' sound on Independence Square alongside the slogan 'Ukraine in the EU!', Ukrainian progressive activist Olga Papash asked in a recent piece on the politics and culture website Korydor. Any ideology has a certain point that integrates dissimilar ideas into a single system, Papash argued.
“'I think the attachment point, that shared place of rightist ideology in Ukraine today, that "ideal" that removes the contradiction between different calls to action and messages, is the fear of (dislike of, reluctance toward) entering into any sort of "civilized" relationship with Russia,' Papash wrote.
“Even Yury Noyevy, a member of Svoboda’s political council, admitted that the party is only pro-EU because it is anti-Russia.”

Interesting point, like Muslim Brotherhood as a parallel state:
“For now, Svoboda and other far-right movements like Right Sector are focusing on the protest-wide demands for civic freedoms government accountability rather than overtly nationalist agendas. Svoboda enjoys a reputation as a party of action, responsive to citizens’ problems. Noyevy cut an interview with The Nation short to help local residents who came with a complaint that a developer was tearing down a fence without permission.
“'There are people who don’t support Svoboda because of some of their slogans, but they know it’s the most active political party and go to them for help,' said Svoboda volunteer Kateryna Kruk. 'Only Svoboda is helping against land seizures in Kiev.'”

Along the lines of 'I'm not a Nazi, but they do help people':
“Kruk freely admitted she doesn’t support Svoboda’s nationalist platform and 'would be very concerned' if the party won a majority in parliament. Nonetheless, she volunteers for Svoboda because she likes 'the idea of a party that is Ukrainian-focused' and thinks it is the most active of the opposition parties.”

Haven't heard this before:
“Katerina, a doctor who also declined to give her last name for fear of repercussions at work, said although she disagrees with Svoboda’s nationalist program, she supports them 'for now' for their strong anti-oligarch stance.
“'They’re not afraid to make demands,' she said.”

And who are Borotba?
“Nonetheless, some left-wing parties, including the Marxist party Borotba, don’t support the protests because they worry about the growing power the demonstrations have given to Svoboda.” Is abstention the way?

“[. . .] protestors with apparent nationalist sentiments have taken part in a spate of attacks on left-wing activists on Independence Square. On November 27, activists with signs reading 'Freedom, Equality, Sisterhood,' 'Europe is sex education,' 'Europe is equality' and 'Organize trade union instead of praying for Europe' said they were assaulted by 'far-right thugs' calling themselves 'organizers of the protest,' who tore the banners. On November 28, several men with covered faces pepper-sprayed a group of feminists and tore a banner reading 'Europe means paternity leaves.'” Guess they learned their lesson, & absented themselves by the time tension escalated in mid-Feb.

“On December 4, labor organizer Denis Levin and his two brothers were beaten by a small crowd shouting 'Glory to Ukraine' and 'Death to Enemies' after a nationalist writer on the stage pointed them out as 'provocateurs' with red flags, Levin told The Nation. Shortly before and after the attack, Miroshnychenko, a member of Svoboda’s political council, came by the tent where the brothers were agitating for the Confederation of Free Labor Unions, Levin added. The nose of one brother was broken, and Denis suffered from the irritative gas used against the trio.”

“'The main mistake of Maidan is that the parties came, and social questions were replaced by nationalist ones,' he [Levin] added. 'Maidan didn’t grow into Occupy [Wall Street - Nation's original addition], it became reactive.'”

An authentic Cassandra:
“'Svoboda is going to be the biggest winner among the opposition parties in increasing its level of support after Euromaidan,' he [Bondarenko, political analyst] added. 'Right now the majority of people on Maidan demand more radical actions, and I don’t see how other parties will enact these wishes.'”

So it goes.
 
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A mate just shared this, dunno who saw fit to put this on the internet but it seems to be some kind of Russian liberal types take on it. Can't say for sure and can't be bothered to check though, cos sleep.

http://net.abimperio.net/node/3143/

Has anyone seen any coverage at all by the way that has focused on how the people in Russia feel about Putin's escalation and the potential conflict on their borders?

Been looking for independent info from Russia, but there's little about the net.

The official state bodies are simply countering Ukrainian nationalism with Russian nationalism.

http://rt.com/politics/mironov-russian-citizenship-ukraine-999/
 
Interesting article on Libcom. I don't think it's been linked already, but this is a busy thread so apologies if it has.


http://avtonomia.net/2014/02/20/maidan-contradictions-interview-ukrainian-revolutionary-syndicalist/

Thanks for this link.

Interesting how he compares what was happening to the protests to Egypt. ( This interview was done a bit before the toppling of the government). A parallel with the Muslim Brotherhood and Svoboda.

Also that in Ukraine the split between west and east Ukraine meant that the ruling elites had to give concessions to the working class. They could not fully bring in neoliberal "reforms".

Its a good level headed analysis.
 
So, Russia's Federation Council has voted unanimously to OK Putin's "request" to use forces in Ukraine....anywhere in Ukraine to protect the lives of Russian citizens. Russia's Sudetenland.

Ha, the old "mention Sudetenland to evoke thoughts of Hitler" tactic. I last heard that one used when Georgia attacked Abkhazia with missiles and Russia responded by invading. Turns out Saakashvili did launch an attack on civilians and Putin made a good call. Nice try though.
 
Ukraine: The far-right groups patrolling Kiev

Yes, autonomous fascism in motion is a wonderful sight to behold... All Hail the Nazi Autonomes on both sides!

Down with imperialist pig dogs of BBC and Guardian!


Strokes cat and waits for arrival of John McCain...

john_mccain_48.jpg
hospital bed, Hanoi (not getting relief - far from it)

41977624.jpg
"Hi, framed, how's the cat? Have I introduced you to Bubbles?"

BdpEN4iCEAArL2T.jpg:large


But seriously, framed, . . .

john_mccain.jpg
 
[. . .] Has anyone seen any coverage at all by the way that has focused on how the people in Russia feel about Putin's escalation and the potential conflict on their borders?
Been looking for independent info from Russia, but there's little about the net. [. . .]
Funny you should both ask that . . .
http://links.org.au/node/3734

Although it's not exactly what you were wondering about, they're 2 evocatively-titled pieces by Boris 'Bolshie' Kagarlitsky (even in wiki), just translated, 'A Quadrille of Monsters' & 'Smashing the Feed Trough'.

They were written before Yanuk ran away, 21Jan & 3Feb, & first published by Links today, Sunday. They discuss some views of the Russian & Ukrainian revo left, including Borotba, the group mentioned in the Nation article I excerpted (Alec Luhn, Tu 21Jan).
 
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In this Brave New World of Self-Determination & Impending War, life just carries on:

f8ab48b2-bca8-412d-b99d-cdb26d515006-460x276.jpeg


A newly married couple kiss under the statue of Lenin in Simferopol yesterday.

As they say, there's never been a better time to be a socialist or up on a plinth gazing down on the happy couples.

And people thought the post-Soviet world was grim & devoid of the pleasures & excitement of life?

Crisis? What crisis?
 
Partition appears to be the only solution.
If a partition is coming anyway, might it not be better to take ownership of the process: to see that the border is decided peacefully and by referendum rather than by military occupation? To ensure that the two new entities recognise each other, that free movement of goods and people is guaranteed, that we avoid another frozen conflict in which families are separated and the economy is wrecked.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100261417/can-ukraine-avoid-partition/
 
Middle-income country problems.

A Russian friend was late for work the other day because her commute to work in Orekhovo-Zuevo was disrupted as rail services were held up by the transportation of tanks heading westward.
 
Because we don't do democracy anymore:rolleyes:
Seriously think the 2 sides in the country can live together in a democracy? I don't.
How about the west's diplomats for once stop the Russophob posturing and do their job and work together with Russia towords a democratic solution to get the Ukraine out of the mess it got itself into?
Agreed. The diplomats from the West & Russia & Ukraine get together & decide where the partition line should be drawn & then hold a referendum on it. It's worth a try.
 
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