Ukraine

[Eastern-Odyssey]

So what is the legal status of this document if, as you say, it is not legally binding?
(But there is no such thing as international law as there is no supra-national enforcement of any decision of any court, only the possibility of some states taking action against any state found to have violated anything. Anything deemed international law reduces, without loss of meaning, to law-between-states.)


I know you haven't said you believe this to be so, merely offering it as a possible Putin point, but I've seen no evidence of such a threat (it's also not "sectarian", that is of sects, religious, but what people call ethnic); is there any?

Well it's just a diplomatic agreement which all parties involved have agreed to Security Assurances, exactly what it says. Memorandums can be legally binding, but this one isn't, with language like "consult, refrain and respect" It barely passes as a diplomatic agreement. I'm assuming all parties involved wanted it to be as vague as possible, as neither party really had any intention of sticking to the agreement. However, not only does it bring NATO into none-binding defence pact, but in combination with other laws, that's what the US will use to sanction Russia, or push for a UN resolution. Obviously other laws like the CSCE treaty and the UN Charter the US breaks all the time and they have no chance at a security council resolution, so Russia's just going to tell them to fuck of and get on with it.

Yes I should have said ethnic-violence and I would class the 97 people that were just injured between pro and anti-maiden demonstrators, as a good example Putin could use for ethnic violence. They are technically ethnic-Russian's clashing with ethnic-Ukrainians something which is only going to get worse now Putin has announced his invasion of Crimea.

 

[RosyFuture]

Kharkiv, today.

This is great example of foreign-workers-&-peasants abusing other foreign-workers-&-peasants for the greater glory of the national heroes & for the greater glory of the nation.

Nationalist terror is the future.

 

[framed]

Nationalist terror is the future.

Try telling us something we don't already know...

 

[sunny jim]

it'll end in tears, mark my words

Fascist tears, hopefully.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Kharkiv, today.

This is great example of foreign-workers-&-peasants abusing other foreign-workers-&-peasants for the greater glory of the national heroes & for the greater glory of the nation.

Nationalist terror is the future.

Fucking hell, they're mostly just kids what's the context for this? Which 'side' did it?

 

[brogdale]

Fucking hell, they're mostly just kids what's the context for this? Which 'side' did it?

News (C4) said these were apparently pro 'western'/Kiev protestors who were set upon by pro 'Russian' protestors.

News tonight does not really engender the feel-good factor...

7.29pm GMT

Ukraine’s acting president has said that Russia has no justification for its aggression and has ordered the army to be put on ”combat alert”. The prime minister of Ukraine has said that Russian forces must return to their bases in Crimea and any further military intervention by Moscow will result in war.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Poking the Russian bear eh?

 

[classicdish]

Pro-#Ukraine activists beaten bloody by pro-Russians, forced to kneel, in #Kharkiv

(translation from twitter)

 

[SpineyNorman]

Well, dunno about anyone else but I might start stockpiling baked beans and bottled water and looking for a house to rent with a nice strong cellar.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Pro-#Ukraine activists beaten bloody by pro-Russians, forced to kneel, in #Kharkiv

(translation from twitter)

At least they get reported on, unlike when it's the other way round.

 

[camouflage]

Well, dunno about anyone else but I might start stockpiling baked beans and bottled water and looking for a house to rent with a nice strong cellar.

aye.

 

[DotCommunist]

Well, dunno about anyone else but I might start stockpiling baked beans and bottled water and looking for a house to rent with a nice strong cellar.

I'd rather armageddon than a day trapped in a cellar with someone on a beans and water diet

 

[SpineyNorman]

I'd rather armageddon than a day trapped in a cellar with someone on a beans and water diet

I'm gonna use any excess beans to bribe mercenaries post-apocalypse and bottle my farts for use as chemical weapons

 

[treelover]

No, after them, it's YOU!

if she/he is in Ukraine, that may turn out to be an unfortunate remark

 

[SpackleFrog]

And if you had anything interesting to say you wouldn't need to point that out.

if she/he is in Ukraine, that may turn out to be an unfortunate remark

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Interesting article on Libcom. I don't think it's been linked already, but this is a busy thread so apologies if it has.

At the moment, the main power is concentrated in the hands of the opposition party “Batkivshchyna” (“Fatherland”) , which has managed to rally a substantial part of the ruling class. Its leader, recently released from prison Yulia Tymoshenko, has obvious presidential ambitions. It should be remembered though, that when Tymoshenko’s sentence was pronounced, the rally in her support in Kiev gathered no more than five thousand people, and all the mass demos of this party had to use paid-for extras. Batkivshchyna as well as the Party of Regions has virtually no serious grassroot support or activist base, but it has large enough material resources.

In order to stay in power, Yulia Tymoshenko’s team will have to appease the far rightists, the Right Sector in particular. Two such attempts have already been made – the fascists who had been imprisoned in cases not related to the Maidan were released after the enactment of the according law in the Parliament. New Interior Minister Arsen Avakov has promised to introduce representatives of the RS in his ministry. Now we’ll be able to call the cops “Nazis” with a good reason. But Batkivshchyna is clearly frightened of such a passionate and uncontrolled element in power. So they will try to get the far-right on the hook, not only by buying but also by tying them with blood. Right Sector dreams of settling old accounts with subcultural anti-fascists, so they were carefully supplied with the Security Service or police dossiers containing personal data. Probably in the near future the authorities will close their eyes to violence against the left or racist attacks, but will recall it a few months later, when they will need an excuse to reign in the uncomfortable allies.

https://libcom.org/news/ukraine-after-yanukovych-50-shades-brown-autonomous-workers-union-28022014

Looks like it's from the same source as this more detailed account from last week.

https://libcom.org/news/statement-situation-ukraine-autonomous-workers-union-21022014

and this

http://avtonomia.net/2014/02/20/maidan-contradictions-interview-ukrainian-revolutionary-syndicalist/

 

[OneStrike]

More significant numbers?

 

[thriller]

It's The Ukraine. Not Ukraine. Someone get the dumb twat to change the thread title.

 

[Fuchs66]

that might be what putin wants to do but 2,000 soldiers is to too few to prevent things getting out of hand and too many for the kiev regime to ignore.

But possibly just enough to provoke a reaction in order to provide the excuse to go OTT, as Russian "peacekeepers" have done elsewhere in the past.

 

[Theisticle]

More significant numbers?

Would need that independently verified first. Too many loose numbers floating about by non-neutral sides.

 

[TomUS]

So, Russia's Federation Council has voted unanimously to OK Putin's "request" to use forces in Ukraine....anywhere in Ukraine to protect the lives of Russian citizens. Russia's Sudetenland.

 

[CNT36]

Live coverage of the UN on Al Jazeera now.

 

[seventh bullet]

One factor the author didn't mention is Putin doing this to manage the reaction and deflect criticism domestically. He's got a resurgent far right to deal with, and not just in the form of corrupt partially incorporated figures like Zhirinovsky and the Liberal Democrats but outside that too. The Russian Communist Party, which is still the opposition and is persistently popular especially with older Russians, well they're not happy about losing Ukraine to gangs of neo-nazi's backed by the west either, so he's got that to balance. Putin's got to show a willingness to assert his strength, after all he's sold himself as a strong leader who's restoring Russia to its former glory, but at the same time has very little stomach for this to become a civil war, Syria on his doorstep. I think he's got little choice but to show some muscle or risk his own popularity in Russia. He's got to be very careful how he deal with this and not let it get out of hand.

Who and what outside of it? The far-right, although a threat to people living on suburban housing estates or travelling on public transport, will be kept in the gutter. And the neo-Eurasianists are much more elitist than the boneheads.

 

[ohmyliver]

I'd rather armageddon than a day trapped in a cellar with someone on a beans and water diet

 

[RosyFuture]

UA state under cyber attack: no access to gov website, http://www.kmu.gov.ua/

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Here's Arbour Networks map of DoS attacks

http://www.arbornetworks.com/asert/map/

 

[RosyFuture]

guardian shit thread >>

if Guardian in imperialist country has shit thread which English-lingo thread do you recommend, other than urban of course?

 

[Pickman's model]

if Guardian in imperialist country has shit thread which English-lingo thread do you recommend, other than urban of course?

if you knows a better 'ole go there

 

[RosyFuture]

Here's Arbour Networks map of DoS attacks

http://www.arbornetworks.com/asert/map/

Thanks for link: didn't know such a thing existed.

The only UA data it gives for today is 1647 GMT attack for 9mins. to unidentified site from 123 ports (is that IP addresses, points?).

UA state site, http://www.kmu.gov.ua/, is still inaccessible.

ADDED: some can be reached, e.g. Defence Ministry with its Minister, the former head of the navy, a Svoboda member:
http://www.mil.gov.ua/?lang=ua
http://www.mil.gov.ua/?lang=en

 

[RosyFuture]

if you knows a better 'ole go there

But it was you who called it shit. Why did you call it shit? How can you be making sense?