Ukraine

[Casually Red]

IMO, fash are going for gold, a perfect opportunity as CR says. Pessimistic maybe, but a reality all the same.

theyve currently got 2 superpowers behind them, EU and US combined . Theres no way the nazis are going to back down, nobody would in that scenario , and theres no way theyll run out of resources with that backing. They also know if they get a few of their members killed it helps them even more . So it encourages them to escalate aggression and provocation in the hope of martyrs.

and despite all the western liberal breast beating about police brutality if even a tenth of those scenes were witnessed near washington DC the state would be sending in Apache gunships never mind tanks . Thered be hundreds dead and everyone knows it.

 

[Casually Red]

I'm sorry if you shoot an co2 replica uzi at armed police you deserve to be killed because your too stupid to live
http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/airgun_uzi.htm its probably something like this the only way thats killing someone is buy battering them over the head with it.
Could take your eye out though

yeah but those trauma pistols are a different matter though . And they have killed .

Over the past five years, some 70 people were shot to death and 600 more were injured from non-lethal weapons in Russia.

http://rbth.co.uk/articles/2011/10/21/should_russia_legalize_guns_13611.html

 

[Mr.Bishie]

And do you think the EU, dominated by Germany, would let the Nazi party of Ukraine join? Hmmm, tough one, I know.

Read the thread mate

 

[Casually Red]

Fash have kicked off again, seems the government olive branch is seen b them as weakness and just encouraging them.

 

[Casually Red]

This is seriously starting to escalate since last night . A mob of nazis took 3 police prisoner when they stormed a government building, one of them was knifed and is in hospital . At the same time gunmen, presumably fash, ambushed a lone policeman near the Berkuts housing area, shooting him dead and escaping . And elsewhere a bomb has gone of outside a police station in central Ukraine . This is in conjunction with the nazis decision to restart the rioting after a previous standoff. It all has the appearance of a co ordinated escalation, most likely to provoke a predictable response .

Its pretty obvious this thing could escalate even further. That would appear to be the nazi plan . And their plans are in conjunction with their foreign backers. The sight of the Berkut remaining largely disciplined and taking it while being doused in molotovs and all sorts may well be considered unhelpful to the western narrative of unimaginable police brutality vs peaceful protestors . Western telly needs a massacre here . The fash are going about the best way to provoke one by the looks of it .

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Police/Militia taking protesters out of hospital. Reports of them being taken to a forest to be tortured & executed. Also police resigning their jobs to join protesters.

 

[Casually Red]

no offence but the entire tone of that report seems seriously biased and hysterical . Exactly what youd expect from the likes of the seriously discreditted by now Al jazeera . Cops arresting injured rioters, cops telling the media they cant interview detained rioters ?? oh..thats really sinister..they must be killing them all....

 

[likesfish]

yeah but those trauma pistols are a different matter though . And they have killed .
Over the past five years, some 70 people were shot to death and 600 more were injured from non-lethal weapons in Russia.

http://rbth.co.uk/articles/2011/10/21/should_russia_legalize_guns_13611.html

The trauma pistols are one thing but that uzi is either a real one
Or its a bb gun

 

[Lo Siento.]

no offence but the entire tone of that report seems seriously biased and hysterical . Exactly what youd expect from the likes of the seriously discreditted by now Al jazeera . Cops arresting injured rioters, cops telling the media they cant interview detained rioters ?? oh..thats really sinister..they must be killing them all....

Not beyond the realm of possibility that it's true though. I mean, you can imagine how most police would start behaving if exposed to the level of violence we've seen in the Ukraine of late.

 

[J Ed]

Not beyond the realm of possibility that it's true though. I mean, you can imagine how most police would start behaving if exposed to the level of violence we've seen in the Ukraine of late.

Considering the sort of people that are attacking them it wouldn't be a totally irrational response to be fair.

BTW I notice that while the Graunid, Channel 4 and others have discussed the fact that protesters are far-right the BBC continues to whitewash what is going on as pro-EU pro-democratic even while their reports show Svovoda flags in the background (how can they not? they are everywhere.)

 

[J Ed]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/25/yanukovich-offers-opposition-leaders-posts

The Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovich, has offered two opposition leaders top government posts on Saturday, the presidential website said on Saturday, after the two sides met for talks aimed at seeking an end to a violent political crisis.

Former economy minister Arseny Yatsenyuk would be offered the post of prime minister and Vitaly Klitschko, an internationally known boxer, would be proposed as deputy prime minister responsible for humanitarian issues, the website said.

If Yatsenyuk accepts the post of prime minister the president would be ready to accept the resignation of the government of Mykola Azarov, the website said.

There was no immediate reaction from the opposition leaders, who have been calling for the dismissal of Azarov's government since unrest broke out in Kiev two months ago.

It was likely that after Saturday night's talks they would return to thousands of supporters massed on Kiev's Independence Square to report on their discussions with Yanukovich.

The presidential website said Yanukovich had promised that those detained during the unrest would be dealt with leniently if the opposition reined in radical protesters who have clashed with police and if they persuade those who have been occupying public buildings to leave.

 

[Casually Red]

Not beyond the realm of possibility that it's true though. I mean, you can imagine how most police would start behaving if exposed to the level of violence we've seen in the Ukraine of late.

theres that and theres also the ethnic faultlines themselves. These cops are based in deepest Ukranian Ukraine, heartland of the fash . They could well vote for them , some may even be members . And youre looking at a mere handful of cops there . One thing Ukraine isnt short of is cops .

 

[Casually Red]

Considering the sort of people that are attacking them it wouldn't be a totally irrational response to be fair.

BTW I notice that while the Graunid, Channel 4 and others have discussed the fact that protesters are far-right the BBC continues to whitewash what is going on as pro-EU pro-democratic even while their reports show Svovoda flags in the background (how can they not? they are everywhere.)

the same BBC that refers in its reports to Bandera as a partisan leader, as if he was Tito or something . And like certain EU leaders is going bananas over Anelkas quenelle while directly aiding outright nazis engaged in what we can now definitely call armed terrorism, which they call a struggle for democracy .

btw that baronness Ashton is some cute bird . Despite a Meidan square covered in Svoboda flags, when she was wafting about in the midst of the fash cheering them on in their putsch she managed to avoid getting a single flag pictured in the background . No mean feat, it would have been harder to pull that off in Nuremberg .

 

[Casually Red]

The trauma pistols are one thing but that uzi is either a real one
Or its a bb gun

Id say its most likely a BB gun at this stage and if hardware does come out itll most likely be locally manufactured . It wasnt a BB gun they executed that cop with though .

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

It must be weird for Casually Red being on the opposite side to the fascists for a change

 

[J Ed]

Offer of top jobs in government rejected by opposition http://news.sky.com/story/1200733/ukraine-unrest-opposition-offered-top-jobs

 

[Casually Red]

Offer of top jobs in government rejected by opposition http://news.sky.com/story/1200733/ukraine-unrest-opposition-offered-top-jobs

not totally . Klitchsko, who does what the Germans tell him, was offered the lesser post and declined .Yatsenyuk hasnt yet said no the PM job .

 

[pocketscience]

Seems a bit reckless and risky that the Eu are towing the US line instead of trying to make diplomatic efforts to dampen talk of sanctions on Yanukovitch.

If it came to the brink, what would stop Putin closing the taps on the gas pipelines feeding Germany and effectively bringing the Eu economy to an grinding halt?

 

[Casually Red]

Seems a bit reckless and risky that the Eu are towing the US line instead of trying to make diplomatic efforts to dampen talk of sanctions on Yanukovitch.

If it came to the brink, what would stop Putin closing the taps on the gas pipelines feeding Germany and effectively bringing the Eu economy to an grinding halt?

Thats the final card to play, theres a way to go yet before it gets to that stage .

 

[pocketscience]

Thats the final card to play, theres a way to go yet before it gets to that stage .

I'm not so sure it's that far off considering how quick things have escalated.

 

[Casually Red]

Id think that would only be after any Russian intervention in Ukraine , or more specifically Crimea.

 

[Casually Red]

this is absolutely nuts, the cops are just standing there and taking it from the fash . Unbelievable . Theyve definitely been ordered not to hit anyone even in self defence. At the same time its very clear the fash have been ordered to go for it .

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-rioters-beat-police-202/

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

this is absolutely nuts, the cops are just standing there and taking it from the fash . Unbelievable . Theyve definitely been ordered not to hit anyone even in self defence. At the same time its very clear the fash have been ordered to go for it .

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-rioters-beat-police-202/

It takes a lot for me to feel sorry for the police, but that's one video that does just that. Fucking terrifying.

 

[J Ed]

It takes a lot for me to feel sorry for the police, but that's one video that does just that. Fucking terrifying.

Me too. Fuck those fash cunts, I hope that this all ends peacefully but if it doesn't I hope that they end up suffering.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Your wish may come true. Klitschko and co still going for the knockout.

Mr Yatsenyuk says that Tuesday, when a special session of parliament has been called, will be "judgement day".

The opposition is demanding that a free trade agreement with the European Union be signed and political prisoners be freed, including former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko.

They are also demanding early presidential elections. A vote is not due until 2015.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I can't believe that there are still people who seem to think these protests are somehow progressive and pro-democracy.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Why would the police have been ordered not to retaliate - even in self defence?

 

[DownwardDog]

Why would the police have been ordered not to retaliate - even in self defence?

Possibly they can't count on them to give the demonstrators a shoeing on order so they don't give the order and risk losing authority and credibility.

 

[pocketscience]

Why would the police have been ordered not to retaliate - even in self defence?

As CR (I think) already said, there are large amounts of police that sympathise with sections of the protesters. The video wasn't in Kiev but a regional city 200 km SW of the capital. They're probably just appearing to resist.
Yanukowich may well be losing control. The question is, will Russia send in troops to support. that would be very worrying.
As I said, I think the end game's coming sooner rather than later.

 

[pocketscience]

Your wish may come true. Klitschko and co still going for the knockout.

Let me guess: Svoboda gave him an ultimatum (they weren't invited to the table) that if he takes any seat, they'll continue to revolt.
After months of peaceful protests, violence is proving to be the turning point and I think Klitschko and Yatsenyuk rejecting those posts say's volumes.
The protesters are fed up with decades of corruption and Yatseyuk has little credibilty to the protesters as Tymoshenko was the last Eu darling caught with her hands in the till.
Klitscko's just going along for the ride in the hope he can get Merkel a voice in the opposition.

Svoboda are basically stealing the show with violence, and the momentum seems to be growing.
The fact that the west's media and politicians are not picking up on this to push for a peaceful resolution, rather than using the opportunity to take cheap, moralistic jabs at Russia is fucking scary.