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Interestingly Yuri shuhevich the leader of УНА-УНСО just gave an interview to Ukraine's Radio Liberty in which he discusses how much he hates Russia. So it would seem the US is still willing to support the fascist elements of the opposition, as long as their still doing good anti-Kremlin propaganda.
 
Got any links on the points in your first paragraph?

im sure i can get some but if you look at thread youll see evidence of various state officials outside Kiev being tied up by masked men. SBU abandoning their posts and leaving reactors unguarded . Facsist leaders brandishing Aks on a platform pledging to shoot looters and cops alike.

and as you can see from these statements coming out from the coup leaders

Another member of parliament warned his colleagues that they needed to work quickly to bring security forces back to work, saying that some of the nation’s vital infrastructure, including nuclear power plants, were unguarded.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...26a66c-9ca1-11e3-ad71-e03637a299c0_story.html

cops appear to have fucked off all over the place
 
Interestingly Yuri shuhevich the leader of УНА-УНСО just gave an interview to Ukraine's Radio Liberty in which he discusses how much he hates Russia. So it would seem the US is still willing to support the fascist elements of the opposition, as long as their still doing good anti-Kremlin propaganda.

I'm wondering if western Journos and state officials genuinely don't know what 'nationalism' means for these people, as they obviously don't appear to know what the Celtic cross is used for, for example.
 
Surely you only have to look at it to know what it's used for? And as a journalist it should be your job to know these things. It's not as though the fash never use those symbols in the west is it?
 
Surely you only have to look at it to know what it's used for? And as a journalist it should be your job to know these things. It's not as though the fash never use those symbols in the west is it?

Yeah, you'd think, but surely they're not walking around Kiev with their eyes shut and their fingers in their ears?
 
Unbelievably weak standards of "journalism" we have in this country. Fucking hell it's wrong to even call this journalism. It's straightforward propaganda.

This thread alone has outdone every single newspaper in the country in terms of actual knowledge.

I'm glad forums like this exist, can you imagine how little we'd know if it weren't for the internet?
 
Yeah, you'd think, but surely they're not walking around Kiev with their eyes shut and their fingers in their ears?


its not themselves theyre looking to deceive, just us. Professional liars and confusion mongers and always fucking have been. The same people will tell you in the next breath RT cant be trusted and all.
 
Yeah, you'd think, but surely they're not walking around Kiev with their eyes shut and their fingers in their ears?

Well in all fairness Radio Liberty normally employs local staff and gives them the freedom to publish what ever they want, under the condition it does not include the US, or the US State Department. Being their task is purely US State Department propaganda, as long as their complaining about foreign government's they don't care. However, being they have currently achieved a successful coup, I would expect the US State Department would be asking it's journalists to distance themselves from the far right groups and not be carrying out radio interviews.
 
Have you encountered anti-Semitism, or even just certain condescending attitude, about the fact that you’re Jewish, but also standing with them? I’m talking about the dichotomy: there is a “we” – Ukrainians, and a “they” – Jews, a portion of which are our companions and even friends. Our Ukrainian neighbors also ask themselves the question “is this a Jewish matter?”.
- There isn’t even a shadow of such sentiments. I’ve been talking to the “Right Sector”, UNA-UNSO activists since the first days – the same people that I was unlikely to find common ground during the peacetime. Moreover, I position myself exclusively as a Jew, and a religious one. Under my command, there are dozens of resistance fighters – Georgians, Azerbaijani, Armenians, Russians – who don’t even try to speak Ukrainian – and we have never shown any intolerance towards each other. All of them show pronounced respect for my faith – they know what I eat, what I don’t eat, etc., and it does not cause any negative responses.
- How much do you and your friends perceive Maidan as a Ukrainian nationalist revolution? Since there are no doubts that this is a nationalist revolution, there is a reason we hear a constant chorus of “Glory to Ukraine – Glory to her heroes!”, the national anthem is sung every half hour …
- The flag and the anthem aren’t party symbols, but public ones, and piety to them is simply necessary. When the anthem sounds in United States, people stand up and nobody perceives its words as a nationalist manifestation. I don’t idealize the protest movement and don’t know if there is really a birth of a new nation on Maidan, but I’m very impressed by some of the processes. For more than 20 years, by all the trappings, Ukrainian statehood presented a rather artificial entity – people did not feel pride in their country. They were cultivated by the old stereotype of “my house is on the edge” (meaning that most things were none of their business); Ukrainians represented themselves as a nation of people who do not care about anything. Nobody expected that, 9 years after the Orange revolution and consequent complete disappointment, people would find the strength to rise once again. On the march of millions, in which I participated, dozens of Jews walked together with “Freedom” party supporters, shouting unpleasant for me slogans. There is little doubt that there is a heavy dose of the spirit of freedom and unity on Maidan. One just needs to walk along the barricades – we haven’t seen this kind of responsibility in a while. In the past I have witnessed how people simply passed by someone who fell on the street. Now suddenly there is civil consciousness – people work all day and stand on Maidan at night, leaving just few hours for sleep.
- How diverse is Maidan? How do “Right Sector” and liberals, “Common Cause” and “Freedom” party, and such get along with each other? Is there any loss of control? Or is it a self-developing organism onto which neither the government, nor the opposition has influence?
- All of these factions are not the majority, together making up 40% of the protesters. The tendency to not choose a faction is rising, as people are coming just because they feel it is their duty. Moreover, Maidan is a fully manageable organism with a resistance headquarters, whose decisions are carried out by all factions. Other than one incident between “Freedom” party and “Common Cause” (we call them SS), the status quo is maintained…
- SS? Is this just an acronym, no more?
- No more. There is no Nazi symbolist on Maidan – in none of the factions.

There's a shitload of wishful thinking going on here, I think :facepalm:
 
There's a shitload of wishful thinking going on here, I think :facepalm:

Yeah. This sounds about right, from the Forward, which I think started out as the Yiddish socialist paper in the states, but is now a bogstandard mainstream thing:

"Ukrainian Jewish leaders have told us that while anti-Semitism has so far not played a pronounced role in the conflict between the Ukrainian government and the opposition coalition, they are deeply concerned about the potential for attacks on Jews if law and order break down and Ukraine descends deeper into chaos.
Although Jews have participated prominently in the pro-democracy and pro-European demonstrations on Maidan Square, one cannot help but look with disquiet on the fact that one of the three main opposition parties, Svoboda (Liberty), has a history of anti-Semitic rhetoric."


Read more: http://blogs.forward.com/forward-th...apegoat-your-jews-and-muslims/?#ixzz2uAGJOzQS
 
It was less than two years ago that the Lithuanian government, to the silence of the U.S. State Department and many Jewish organizations, repatriated from Putnam, Connecticut, and reburied with full honors, the remains of the 1941 Nazi puppet “prime minister” who personally signed papers confirming shipment of the Jewish citizens to death camps and ghettos. At the time, it was reported here in The Algemeiner. A leading professor at Yale, along with the director of YIVO, were, incredibly, brought to Lithuania to camouflage what was happening with yet another saccharine historical symposium sponsored by the Lithuanian government.

Since 2006, Lithuania has been the only country on the planet to defame Holocaust survivors who survived by joining the anti-Nazi resistance as “war criminals.” None of them has yet received a public apology.‎

The greatest threat to what may be the hidden agenda of the YIVO roundtable revolves around a body known unofficially as the “Red-Brown Commission” and officially as The International Commission for the Evaluation of the Crimes of the Nazi and Soviet Occupation Regimes in Lithuania. The Commission has sought to advance the Double Genocide theory, which seeks to equate the World War II Nazi and Soviet crimes, claiming that the suffering of the Jews under the Nazi occupiers was equal to that of the Lithuanians during the two Soviet occupations of the country. Of course the serious crimes of Stalinism need to be investigated, exposed, and made part of the historical record. That is vitally important. But it is a separate issue, and is completely disrespectful to Holocaust survivors.

Idris2002
 
Ucsj is generally pretty reliable BTW and reports stuff the US don't necessarily want you to hear.

ETA: they seem to be taking a quite pro-maidan line here though. Ffs
 
There were Jews who fought with Mussolini at the start too.

Yeah I know, it doesn't necessarily mean anything. It just confirms the picture I had of this as being a quite politically confused thing increasingly dominated by the fash and the far right.
 
There were Jews with him well beyond the start - they still had their own section and paper in the 30s.

:facepalm: there were also a few involved (at least initially) in the volkisch groups which were the forerunners of the Nazis and when the Nazis took power there was a group of Jewish supporters called the 'Jewish Germans' who became the nazified official body'representing' jews, and told everyone that the Nazis didn't actually hate all Jews only the usurers etc :facepalm: they tried to meet with Goebbels and Hitler on more than one occasion who refused to meet with them iirc!
 
Whove been helping themselves to various arms depots and are now a much more formidable force than they were a week ago. Their nazi slogans are now the official slogans of the coup . Theyre the heroes of the Maidan, heroes of Ukraine, Glory to them . Legitimacy has been conferred to them by all and sundry at the head of the opposition .

this is what happens when senior western politicians use nazis as temporary attack dogs against geopolitical opponents . And the western media dutifully proclaim hurrah for them. Its like feeding the Mogwai after midnight.

Some of those stolen weapons are going to turn up in murders in the west in a few years' time, I'll bet.
 
interesting interview here from Time among the citizens of sevastopol, despite the journalists ridiculous insistence theres no nazis in the Ukraine uprising just because they arent openly flying swastikas

http://world.time.com/2014/02/23/th...in-ukraine-preparing-to-fight-the-revolution/

Many of the people at the rally in Sevastopol were not just ready to believe. They were convinced of the imminent nationalist invasion. What scared them most were the right-wing political parties and militant groups that have played a role in Ukraine’s revolution. “What do you think they’re going to do with all those weapons they seized from police in Kiev? They’re going to come here and make war,” said Sergei Bochenko, who identified himself as the commander of a local militia group in Sevastopol called the Southern Russian Cossack Battalion.

In preparation, he said, his group of several hundred men had armed themselves with assault rifles and begun to train for battle. “There’s not a chance in hell we’re going to accept the rule of that fascist scum running around in Kiev with swastikas,” he said. That may be overstating the case. Nowhere in Ukraine has the uprising involved neo-Nazi groups, and no swastikas have appeared on the revolution’s insignia. But every one of the dozen or so people TIME spoke to in Sevastopol was certain that the revolt was run by fascists, most likely on the payroll of the U.S. State Department. That message has long been propagated in Russian state-run media, which millions of people in the Crimea and eastern Ukraine rely on for information.
source above

Journo seems to be dismissing any talk of neo-nazi / fascist involvement as Russian propaganda.

My impression though is that reports of neo-fascist participation are numerous and fairly reliable?
 
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