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Ukraine

Casually Red said:
2 very different narratives coming from BBC and RT, unsurprisingly . While BBC are emphasising a glorious new dawn and the people winning RT are the only people really showing whats happening elsewhere.
Yanukovich has issued a defiant statement after touring his heartlands saying he has no intention of resigning and nor will he be doing any further deals with armed bandits . The regions in the south and east have basically said from hereonin theyll be running their own affairs as Kiev is just a lawless power vaccuum were the agenda is set by roaming armed mobs even the opposition cant control .
Theyre also pointing to the fact that agreements entered into with the opposition were reneged upon by the rioters . And all decisions after that were pretty much done under duress and the threat of death. Rendering them invalid.

Basically theyre calling it a coup . And theyre right on that score at least. The agreement had been elections. The fash were having none of it and ignored it.

So we have the interior ministry announcing the police are with the protestors, western ukraine running about mad tearing down more Lenin statues, a power vaccumm in kiev being filled by prowling armed fascists with police support, while the elected opposition oligarchs..the minority.. try and get fellow Oligarch Timoshenko back in power despite plainly controlling neither the streets, the police or the facsists . With Eastern and Southern Ukraine, were all the industry and fertile agricultural land is based, telling the rest of them to piss off . To a large extent the split has become ethnic as well as political and regional.

RT are also showing video footage of one of the leading right sector boyos who now apparently has some sort of authority over the police announcing he intends to kill all jews, communists and Russians.

This may not end well Im afraid.
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Fuckin nora :(
 
butchersapron said:
The red and black is the flag of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists the successor of the Ukrainian Military Organization which then controlled/composed the Ukrainian Insurgent Army in 1940 (well the Bandera half did) following the 1940 split.
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Oh OK, there's another red and black striped flag ( this time by Russian fash, or seems like it) in the video above by copliker
 
butchersapron said:
The red and black is the flag of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists the successor of the Ukrainian Military Organization which then controlled/composed the Ukrainian Insurgent Army in 1940 (well the Bandera half did) following the 1940 split.
Click to expand...

It's a different flag, the one here, actually it's more orangey than red

 
frogwoman said:
Crimea is pretty much controlled by Russia.
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Big issue of contention there is the Russian Black Sea Fleet, which is based in the naval base in Sevastapol. Between 2005-2010 under Yushenko said that the lease that allowed Russian naval presence there would not be extended beyond 2017, much to Russia's annoyance. Then when Yanukovych took power in 2010 they agreed to extend that lease beyond 2017 for another 25 years. One would presume that the new "government" reliant as it is on the support of ultra-nationalist Ukranians who are bitterly opposed to this Russian military presence will not be honouring that agreement.

Perhaps Crimea will declare itself an independent state and it's autonomy and independence recognised and gauranteed by Russia? Losing this key military outpost would represent a severe blow to Russias military capability and not one that they (or any other state for that matter) would take lying down?

This is all going to end in fucking tears.
 
530872e037c55.jpeg


Is that Tim Eastman at the front (http://www.timothyeastman.com/uncat...i-and-sascha-of-antifascist-action-ukraine/)? (He said on his blog, in reply to my Q, that the anti-fa interview was done Thursday, 13 Feb, so before the violence this week.)

Other pics (e.g. 44 & 51) show that Yanu's uninvited visitors weren't the core of the Square. For almost all of them it's like a Sunday afternoon stroll. And it's reminiscent of the family visits to Gaddafi's house.
 
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butchersapron said:
But not so odd to see you posting utterly ill informed nonsense.
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Oh, please enlighten us then butchers!

But predictably, you will hide behind limp ad hominem attacks lobbing your little molotov cocktails of condescension.

Quite the revolutionary, most clearly marked by your arrogance and absolute lack of clarity.
 
Diamond said:
Oh, please enlighten us then butchers!

But predictably, you will hide behind limp ad hominem attacks lobbing your little molotov cocktails of condescension.

Quite the revolutionary, most clearly marked by your arrogance and absolute lack of clarity.
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Oh shut up - look at your revolution in favour of the rule of law today. You know nothing whatsoever about what's going on here and blundered in.
 
brogdale said:
Good.....I think?
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I got the impression from the wording of some of the statements that they thought that talking about the protests (or the government for that matter) negatively would result in more antisemitism and they are warning people not to get involved. There have apparently been some Jews involved in the protests (which goes back to what butchersapron was saying earlier about the danger of all social anger now being written off as far-right) however, since the protests started there have been attacks on Jews (and Muslims)
 
Delroy Booth said:
Big issue of contention there is the Russian Black Sea Fleet, which is based in the naval base in Sevastapol. Between 2005-2010 under Yushenko said that the lease that allowed Russian naval presence there would not be extended beyond 2017, much to Russia's annoyance. Then when Yanukovych took power in 2010 they agreed to extend that lease beyond 2017 for another 25 years. One would presume that the new "government" reliant as it is on the support of ultra-nationalist Ukranians who are bitterly opposed to this Russian military presence will not be honouring that agreement.

Perhaps Crimea will declare itself an independent state and it's autonomy and independence recognised and gauranteed by Russia? Losing this key military outpost would represent a severe blow to Russias military capability and not one that they (or any other state for that matter) would take lying down?

This is all going to end in fucking tears.
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Yep. With the SE already declaring effective UDI, I suppose Putin will looking for any threatening pretext to order the tanks to roll Westwards to protect Russian interests.
 
brogdale said:
Yep. With the SE already declaring effective UDI, I suppose Putin will looking for any threatening pretext to order the tanks to roll Westwards to protect Russian interests.
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he doesnt have to send tanks in. He can just turn the gas off , and the money. Right now Ukraines credit rating is at triple C. Nobody only Russia is prepared to service Ukrranian debt. And Id take the view the very last thing he wants to do is send tanks in , thats not good for Russian interests at all. The eastern ukranians have enough muscle to look after themselves unless the Ukranian army turns on them. Which I wouldnt view as likely.
 
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more on the Kharkov assembly.

Basically they arent declaring UDI but making it clear whats going on in Kiev is a coup, unconstitutional and complete leaderless chaos. They claim to be protecting all Ukraine by rallying in support of constitutional order. Of which there plainly is none at the moment. And that until such order is restored theyll be running their own affairs. In the absence of police providing security theyre also forming citizens militias in order to secure arms dumps and prevent the fash from seizing even more hardware.

Its safe to assume that with state power having disntegrated and the cops taking their side, and even what looks like to be their orders in some cases in western Ukraine the fascists are basically emptying the armouries at this point. They must be, theyll not get an opportunity like that again.

http://rt.com/news/thousands-gather-eastern-ukraine-252/
 
brogdale said:
Lordy this don't sound too clever....
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Really. In any other scenario that would be a big enough story to warrant some of the investigative journalism the Grauniad prides itself on.
Their silence on the far-right/nationalists thing is very strange. Surely they must have enough journo's on the ground that they could cover the story objectively.

I'm half expecting a whistle-blower within the Graun to ironically grass Rusbridger up for heavily redacting out any mention of it.
 
I think this says that the Ukraine parliament abolished the law that prohibits nazi propaganda.

 
J Ed said:
Laurie Penny was on Any Questions and she was the only panellist to mention the far-right in Ukraine, makes me wonder if she's been combing this thread for research.
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She may have done but wouldn't really have to as it's been mentioned numerous times on CIF in the comments on pieces about Ukraine, nothing by the writers of said pieces though.
 
Pro-coup demonstation taking place in Leeds atm (with fascist flags on open display in the background)


BhFhUnmIYAAHE3w.jpg:large
 
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