Ukraine

[Belushi]

I suspect that there is so much emphasis on Jewish people and their situation (although I have not seen that much tbh) because of the fact both sides are crying fascist at each other. Which doesn't really help anyone tbh.

Innit, Im instantly suspicious of anyone in Eastern Europe expressing concern about the Jews

 

[frogwoman]

Innit, Im instantly suspicious of anyone in Eastern Europe expressing concern about the Jews

Yeah I mean I have not really seen that much about the Jews tbh, I mean Putin was going on about it but I am not sure he was sincere tbh

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah I mean I have not really seen that much about the Jews tbh, I mean Putin was going on about it but I am not sure he was sincere tbh

Speaking of which Putin was in my dream the other day, talking to my mum

Both turkey and Russia have established links with Moldovan gagauz tbh, they speak a form of Turkish

 

[Belushi]

Probably planning to annex your house to save you from the fascists

 

[frogwoman]

Probably planning to annex your house to save you from the fascists

He was talking to my mum in a weird bus station type thing. My mum rang me as I was going to meet her and said 'oh by the way Vladimir Putin is here but don't worry you can just avoid him'

 

[frogwoman]

I was a bit disconcerted tbh, when i saw Putin in the dream i got a fright and ran away bht then i had to go and apologise for running away, and he kept making weird jokes and then at the end he grabbed my arm initially in a friendly manner but it really hurt, there was some sort of flag as well, I have no idea what he was doing there or what they were talking about

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Innit, Im instantly suspicious of anyone in Eastern Europe expressing concern about the Jews

See post 7071

 

[frogwoman]

Belushi have you seen this?

http://eng.putin.kremlin.ru/interests

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

Belushi have you seen this?

http://eng.putin.kremlin.ru/interests

 

[frogwoman]

I find the way they are always emphasizing the fact that he likes judo and fishing etc and cars a bit weird, like they are trying to hide something

 

[Belushi]

Is that real Can you imagine if leaders had personal websites in the past? 'Adolf enjoys watercolour painting and playing with his Alsatian Blondie'

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Putin kissing things:

 

[goldenecitrone]

Rozogin diplomatically threatens to return to Romania by bomber. A bit insensitive in the present circumstances.

Romania asked Moscow for an explanation on Saturday after Russia's Deputy Prime Minister Dmitri Rogozin, reacting to being barred from its airspace, tweeted he would return in a TU-160 strategic bomber.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/10/us-ukraine-crisis-romania-russia-idUSBREA4905X20140510

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

Well previously I mentioned a small amount of information from a VK Right Sector member which gave a very vague hint that their may be Russian-Far Right groups joining the fight with Right Sector and mentioned they maybe trying to bait Russia into a war of attrition, but now we seem to have some proof. Interesting development, according to reports from Free Caucuses and a Right Sector member, a Chechan Warlord, or according to the report a Chechen Brigadier General by the name of Isa Munayev has signed up 300 Chechan fighters to fight in Ukraine under what they call an "International peacekeeping battalion of volunteers". http://www.golosichkerii.com/index....tsev-uchastvuyushchikh-v-vojne-protiv-ukrainy.

I can't find much about who this General is apart from an interview http://www.chechenews.com/world-news/breaking/17390-1.html and a mention in a Czech article hinting his more than likely on the Russian wanted list http://www.watchdog.cz/?show=000000-000008-000001-000351&lang=2 and then a mention in the wiki article on Chechan warlord Doku Khamatovich Umarov who was wanted by both Russia and the US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dokka_Umarov.

I wonder how Russia will react to knowing Chechan fighters they class as terrorists are now fighting in Ukraine and even more so how the US will react being their often reluctance to label Chechan's fighters as terrorists. Nonetheless, it seems to be heading to a full scale fuckfest.

 

[butchersapron]

The kidnapped miners claimed the separatist who grabbed and tortured them were Chechens.

 

[pocketscience]

I agree that this is a European thing, the problem here is that the minority in question are Russians.

I think you might be connecting too many dots at the end of that; that Right Sector controls the government. It looks to me that they are basically a unit of the Ukrainian military. At the end of the day, it will be the authority that receives IMF money that calls the shots. I just find it implausible that the IMF would hand over something in the region of 30-40 billion to a group like Right Sector (they seem a little bit stupid and certainly not able to run an economy). Power is likely with the oligarchs. It would be a problem if they become right-wing radicals. If Tymoshenko was openly praising the deaths in Odessa, that would be remarkable. She was controlling Ukraine's gas supplies and was happy to deals with the Russians.

For me, the bigger problem is the fact that the Ukrainian government and oligarchs (and the west it has to be said) seem totally desensitized to the idea vilifying and killing the 'Ukrainian Russian' minority. If that has happened, e.g. sending in a far-right paramilitary to burn the TU or just doing it themselves, it does seem like the Russian minority will, at best, have no representation in parliament. In these terms, my guess would be that the Ukrainian government is probably fascist.

Virtually all of the statements form the upper end of politicians have been disgusting. None appear to acknowledge any involvement of pro ukrainians in the TU building fire.
Yatsenyuk for example while rightly pointing fingers at the police can't resist accusing Russia directly:

http://www.trust.org/item/20140504111856-1bzkv/

But Timoshenko's off the scale. From the minute she was released from jail, she's obviously made a b-line for the right wing extremist vote. Her first words on the podium after release: "Glory to Ukraine" (CR called that one right in my opinion). Then the Nuking of Russia(ns) etc... now this. Very populist and probably the worst scenario of a presidential candidate aside from Yarosh himself. If fact, they're now probably one of the same thing.

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

Rozogin diplomatically threatens to return to Romania by bomber. A bit insensitive in the present circumstances.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/10/us-ukraine-crisis-romania-russia-idUSBREA4905X20140510

I thought that was illegal in international law, under the Vienna Convention, or at least if he was in-flight. Being a diplomatic flight they would inform the authorities of their flight path in pre-advance and it sounds a little like he was turned around in-flight.

 

[butchersapron]

Event in Bristol in few weeks:

What: Ukrainian Nationalism – an historical perspective with Colin Thomas, Mike Levine and Mark Batterham
Where: The Hydra Bookshop, Old Market, Bristol, BS2 0EZ
When: Thursday 29 May 7.30pm

1) "DONETSK - SPLINTERING CITY.
Founded by the Welsh capitalist John Hughes, the city's frequent changes of name - Hughesovka, Trotskya, Stalino, Donetsk - give some indication of its troubled history. Colin Thomas filmed there when it was still part of the Soviet Union, again when it became part of Ukraine and he returned once more in 2008 when its unease with Ukrainian nationalism was beginning to
emerge. His book/DVD on the subject -"Dreaming a City" - is published by Y Lolfa. To include extracts from documentaries he shot in the city."

2) Mike Levine will talk on the history of the Ukraine, the peasants, and the civil war (1917-1921)

3) Mark Batterham will be relaying personal accounts and analyses from Moldovan migrants living and working in the Odessa region where over 50 residents were burnt to death in a trade union centre by Ukrainian ultra nationalists earlier this month.

(Colin Thomas directed The Dragon has two tongues btw which i know some people here are enamored of)

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

The kidnapped miners claimed the separatist who grabbed and tortured them were Chechens.

The article starts by saying their is meant to be Chechan's helping Russian separatists and to counteract these Chechan's their send their own Chechan's as they've committed a crime against Chechna. Personally other than Russian soldiers I can't see many Chechan's running away to fight in Ukraine, and being I'm still under the impression their trying to create an enemy, I tend to be a little sceptical over their claims. But who knows anything is possible right now. However, I found another article on some of the applicants for the new Ukrainian fuckfest, it's not just Chechans but by the sounds of it their recruiting the Dirty Dozen a mix of fascists, militants, warlords and CIA spooks.

We have US citizen, documentary film maker and suspected American spook according to the FSB Сергей Мельникофф:

Azerbaijani military chief and activist Иса Садыгов

And lots more right wing nut jobs, militants and possible CIA spooks including another American Newel Booth which sounds a little like a fake name.

 

[DairyQueen]

Also we have heard very little about Romanians in the region. Everyone forgets Romania but don't forget that there are thousands of Romanians living in Bukovina in western Ukraine which historically belonged to the country.

I suspect that there is so much emphasis on Jewish people and their situation (although I have not seen that much tbh) because of the fact both sides are crying fascist at each other. Which doesn't really help anyone tbh.

I ignored Israeli newspapers since it is understandable that the such a state would have an particular interest in reporting on the jewish minority there (no matter how small it is). This took me about five minutes to find on google... there is a lot more... they could all be in the last couple weeks or so...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26786213
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/05/07/why_jews_and_ukrainians_have_become_unlikely_allies
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/27/russia-propaganda-war-danger-for-ukraine-jews
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/471422/Jews-urged-to-flee-Ukraine-by-Holocaust-survivor

Again, I have no problem with such coverage (even though foreign policy is implying the Ukrainians are anti-semitic), clearly it is an important minority group (even if a lot of the coverage does not really inform us as to what is actually happening on the ground). But compare this to searching for information on the Romani (there is about half the number of Romani in Ukraine) and Gagauzia (again, about a third of the number) in Ukraine.

 

[DairyQueen]

Virtually all of the statements form the upper end of politicians have been disgusting. None appear to acknowledge any involvement of pro ukrainians in the TU building fire.
Yatsenyuk for example while rightly pointing fingers at the police can't resist accusing Russia directly:

http://www.trust.org/item/20140504111856-1bzkv/

But Timoshenko's off the scale. From the minute she was released from jail, she's obviously made a b-line for the right wing extremist vote. Her first words on the podium after release: "Glory to Ukraine" (CR called that one right in my opinion). Then the Nuking of Russia(ns) etc... now this. Very populist and probably the worst scenario of a presidential candidate aside from Yarosh himself. If fact, they're now probably one of the same thing.

So either Yatsenuik is totally insane or a lying fascist?

 

[frogwoman]

I ignored Israeli newspapers since it is understandable that the such a state would have an particular interest in reporting on the jewish minority there (no matter how small it is). This took me about five minutes to find on google... there is a lot more... they could all be in the last couple weeks or so...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26786213
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/05/07/why_jews_and_ukrainians_have_become_unlikely_allies
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/27/russia-propaganda-war-danger-for-ukraine-jews
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/471422/Jews-urged-to-flee-Ukraine-by-Holocaust-survivor

Again, I have no problem with such coverage (even though foreign policy is implying the Ukrainians are anti-semitic), clearly it is an important minority group (even if a lot of the coverage does not really inform us as to what is actually happening on the ground). But compare this to searching for information on the Romani (there is about half the number of Romani in Ukraine) and Gagauzia (again, about a third of the number) in Ukraine.

Isn't a lot of this because the two sides are drawing attention to it themselves?

 

[J Ed]

The article starts by saying their is meant to be Chechan's helping Russian separatists and to counteract these Chechan's their send their own Chechan's as they've committed a crime against Chechna. Personally other than Russian soldiers I can't see many Chechan's running away to fight in Ukraine, and being I'm still under the impression their trying to create an enemy, I tend to be a little sceptical over their claims. But who knows anything is possible right now. However, I found another article on some of the applicants for the new Ukrainian fuckfest, it's not just Chechans but by the sounds of it their recruiting the Dirty Dozen a mix of fascists, militants, warlords and CIA spooks.

I remember that there were a few people on Scumfront early on in Euromaidan bragging about how they were fighting against Yanukovych as a way to get at Putin. Judging by that forum there does seem to be a split in the Russian far-right on the issue though most are anti-Kiev.

 

[frogwoman]

I haven't seen very much about what's happening to the Jewish minority myself only what the two sides are saying about it and because of the 'fascist' thing both sides are promoting the view the other is really antisemitic. Did you see the links I posted about the Roma a few pages back DairyQueen?

 

[frogwoman]

I remember that there were a few people on Scumfront early on in Euromaidan bragging about how they were fighting against Yanukovych as a way to get at Putin. Judging by that forum there does seem to be a split in the Russian far-right on the issue though most are anti-Kiev.

Saw that myself, 'Russian Sector'

 

[frogwoman]

DairyQueen I just tried to pm you but it won't let me for some reason

 

[frogwoman]

J Ed Serbian fash too, look at this

'Crimea is Ukraine, Kosovo is Serbia'

 

[J Ed]

Presumably there are more Serb far-right on the other side though http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/serbian-fighters-head-to-crimea

 

[frogwoman]

What's happening with the referendum?

 

[8ball]

I haven't seen very much about what's happening to the Jewish minority myself only what the two sides are saying about it and because of the 'fascist' thing both sides are promoting the view the other is really antisemitic. Did you see the links I posted about the Roma a few pages back DairyQueen?

You'd kind of hope that would make things a little easier for the Jewish minority since whichever side starts something, that provides ammunition for the other side.

Maybe it won't pan out like that but it's nice to dream...