Ukraine

[pocketscience]

Come on this is fucking disgusting. Celebrating soldiers deaths is this really where we have ended up?

Other people read this thread you know. Millions of people read this forum from other countries.

Imagine you are from Kiev, you know people who was in the maidan, you have relatives in the Ukrainian army, maybe you even know people who were killed in the protests. 100 people get killed in the maidan, they would have had friends and family, perhaps some of those were sympathetic to right sector and other groups, then they see the brutality of the state, they see how racist their 'comrades' were with the Jews and others at the maidan protests, they start to reject nationalism etc.

How exactly are you gonna react when you see self proclaimed anti fascists cheering on people shooting down soldiers helicopters and calling you and your dead mates scum for protesting against the government.you think all squaddies support the government? You think economic coercion in a country like Ukraine with its poverty and unemployment doesn't play a role like it does here? You think ukrainian soldiers are all right sector fash? Listen to yourselves.this isn't anti fascism. This is something else.

You should be fucking ashamed of yourselves. I am fucking glad you lot aren't ever going to have any real power because I dread to think we would end up.

A war against terrorism - great, everyone's against that, here's a gun go and do it.

The pilots survived.

Ukraine's defence ministry said the pilots survived.

I won't be losing any sleep about what happens to them in captivity though. Seriously, what the fuck are the kiew gov thinking, deploying helicopter gunships in their own country. Do you think the pilots on those missions care about the victims and their familes when they press those buttions?

 

[pocketscience]

BBC reporting that the crew survived this time. Fortunately.

Yeah, fortunatly they can climb back into those helicopter gunships soon and blast a few guided missiles onto their own population. well fortunate that

 

[goldenecitrone]

Yeah, fortunatly they can climb back into those helicopter gunships soon and blast a few guided missiles onto their own population. well fortunate that

I think the helicopter is a bit of a write-off after that crash.

 

[pocketscience]

I think the helicopter is a bit of a write-off after that crash.

 

[classicdish]

...deploying helicopter gunships...press those buttions...

I haven't heard of any attacks being made by helicopters, nor of any missiles being used. Have I missed something?

 

[pocketscience]

I haven't heard of any attacks being made by helicopters, nor of any missiles being used. Have I missed something?

So what do you think they're doing there?

 

[seventh bullet]

That group are at 5:20 in this vid - may be some identifying stuff there - but can't really spot anything myself. Loads of flags etc in this shot of them from behind.

I should have looked at all the photos posted on his VK page. There are loads in his OD album, but not sure if the people in them (including the march you refer to) are his fellow Black Hundred mates or locals. It looks like he was welcome at their tent, if not the wider camp.

His LiveJournal account. It appears he wasn't happy about 'Jews' at the camp.

Does anyone know much about what org that flag belongs to? Jewish Insurgent Army. The one on the left says Russia Protect/s. Was it an anti-Semitic insult and he was too thick to get it? Or something else?

 

[sunny jim]

I haven't heard of any attacks being made by helicopters, nor of any missiles being used. Have I missed something?

They're a part of the attack on the mainly civilian forces opposed to the fascists from Kiev, so whether they have fired missiles is irrelevant.

 

[pocketscience]

I haven't heard of any attacks being made by helicopters, nor of any missiles being used. Have I missed something?

From the Ukraine defence ministry website itself:
|05-05-2014| |16:08|

DONETSK OBLAST: MILITANTS SHOT DOWN MI-24 HELICOPTER: NO VICTIMS
Monday, May 5. SLAVYANSK – About 2.30 p.m. the Ukrainian Mi-24 helicopter was shot down while targeting and accomplishing task.

I may be out on a limb here but I'm guessing using helicopter gunship armery (missiles) is part of the remit when "targetting and accomplishing tasks"
Maybe one of our resident ex-squaddies can decipher the lingo.
Any way, if it's not happening today, we're only a gnats pubic hair away from it.

 

[seventh bullet]

They're a part of the attack on the mainly civilian forces opposed to the fascists from Kiev, so whether they have fired missiles is irrelevant.

How's your fascist anti-fascism going?

 

[sunny jim]

How's your fascist anti-fascism going?

How's your ignoring of blatant fascist forces going? You know, the Hitler arse lickers that make up the Right Sector?

 

[seventh bullet]

How's your ignoring of blatant fascist forces going? You know, the Hitler arse lickers that make up the Right Sector?

You fucking mug.

 

[sunny jim]

You fucking mug.

Fuck off and die, you scumfuck cunt.

 

[seventh bullet]

lol.

 

[goldenecitrone]

At least delroy's meltdown was entertaining.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Fuck you, you piece of shit. How about some condemnation for the attack on the Trade Unions building? Seriously, shit off you despicable fuckwit.

And thus speaks the voice of keyboard warrior antifascism. Do you really expect to be taken seriously when you come out with crap like that?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Fuck off and die, you scumfuck cunt.

do you do weddings and birthday parties?

 

[pocketscience]

How's your fascist anti-fascism going?

It would have been good to invite Anton Davidchenko (One of the main Anti Maiden organisers) to clear all this shit up.
Unfortunatly he's been imprisoned for speeking his mind. He's been shipped off to Kiew... Tha's what Maiden protests were all about?
This is that order of magnitude fascism thing I was taliking about.
http://democracyandclasstruggle.blogspot.de/2014/03/ukraine-anti-fascists-in-odessa-protest.html

 

[SpineyNorman]

At least delroy's meltdown was entertaining.

The best bit about this one is that I think he's expecting to be taken seriously. That definitely wasn't the case with Delroy lol

 

[sunny jim]

And thus speaks the voice of keyboard warrior antifascism. Do you really expect to be taken seriously when you come out with crap like that?

Fw wanted people to have sympathy for forces loyal to the fascist backed government. Well fuck that, they're on the same side as the murdering cunts from the Right Sector. I have no sympathy for them and never will have.

 

[SpineyNorman]

It would have been good to invite Anton Davidchenko (One of the main Anti Maiden organisers) to clear all this shit up.
Unfortunatly he's been imprisoned for speeking his mind. He's been shipped off to Kiew... Tha's what Maiden protests were all about?
This is that order of magnitude fascism thing I was taliking about.
http://democracyandclasstruggle.blogspot.de/2014/03/ukraine-anti-fascists-in-odessa-protest.html

The reality is that none of us actually know how much weight they carry on the anti-Kiev side - we know more about the pro-Kiev side but still not enough. That's why I think doing the kind of stuff seventh bullet has been doing - serious research that informs us of stuff we didn't know about before - would be a lot better than making confident declarations about differences in magnitude or going the sunny jim route of denouncing anyone who says something that contradicts his simplistic good against evil narrative in a bizarre display of playground antifascism (which as froggy implied bears more than a passing resemblence to Bush's war on terror rhetoric)

 

[SpineyNorman]

Fw wanted people to have sympathy for forces loyal to the fascist backed government. Well fuck that, they're on the same side as the murdering cunts from the Right Sector. I have no sympathy for them and never will have.

It really is that simple isn't it sunny jim ? Was lee Rigby's murder a brave blow against imperialism as well?

 

[frogwoman]

Fuck you, you piece of shit. How about some condemnation for the attack on the Trade Unions building? Seriously, shit off you despicable fuckwit.

Lol. You celebrate the escalation of the conflict and you call me disgusting.

Still waiting to see my post where I support the Kiev government by the way.

 

[frogwoman]

Everyone's against antisemites right sunny jim? Netanyahu's so against them he's decided to make it very clear who the israeli state is for by making it very clear it's for the Jews and nobody else. that'll show the cunts. What you mean you don't agree with that? What are you, some kind of fascist?

 

[classicdish]

They're a part of the attack on the mainly civilian forces opposed to the fascists from Kiev, so whether they have fired missiles is irrelevant.

Using missiles, rockets, artillery, bombs etc is very relevant to whether the level of force being used is proportionate and discriminating. Ukraine has the hardware to completely flatten the anti-Maiden HQ buildings if it chose to but it obviously doesn't want to do so.

Out of interest, if someone is part of a 'force' (ie an armed combatant) then are they really a 'civilian'? If they aren't armed combatants then how are they part of a 'force'?

 

[sunny jim]

Lol. You celebrate the escalation of the conflict and you call me disgusting.

Still waiting to see my post where I support the Kiev government by the way.

How about some condemnation of the torching of the Trade Union building? The people in the helicopter are on the same side as the murdering fascist cunts that carried out that atrocity so obviously I'll lose no sleep if they come a croper.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Lol. You celebrate the escalation of the conflict and you call me disgusting.

Still waiting to see my post where I support the Kiev government by the way.

You said that people who aren't fascists support the Kiev government and that the confrontation might be slightly more complicated than good against evil. That means you support the fascist Kiev fascist government which is fascist and so are you.

It's a bit like those lefties who said maybe there's more to the war on terror than a fight between freedom and religious fundamentalist barbarism and that some who aren't religious fundamentalists might resist. That meant they supported the Islamist terrorism of the terrorist al-qaeda who are terrorists and Islamic fundamentalists and so were those lefties.

 

[frogwoman]

You said that people who aren't fascists support the Kiev government and that the confrontation might be slightly more complicated than good against evil. That means you support the fascist Kiev fascist government which is fascist and so are you.

It's a bit like those lefties who said maybe there's more to the war on terror than a fight between freedom and religious fundamentalist barbarism and that some who aren't religious fundamentalists might resist. That meant they supported the Islamist terrorism of the terrorist al-qaeda who are terrorists and Islamic fundamentalists and so were those lefties.

I didn't even say that tho. I said that people were in the maidan protests (who might not support the government) aren't all fascist.

 

[SpineyNorman]

How about some condemnation of the torching of the Trade Union building? The people in the helicopter are on the same side as the murdering fascist cunts that carried out that atrocity so obviously I'll lose no sleep if they come a croper.

Yes. Everyone who hasn't deemed it necessary to explictly denounce the burning of the Trade Unions building thinks it was fucking brilliant. I know I do. I love nothing more that seeing a trade union building burn.

You daft twat.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I didn't even say that tho. I said that people were in the maidan protests (who might not support the government) aren't all fascist.

Same difference. You're still an apologist for Islamist terrorism, sorry I mean fascism.