ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I'm certainly confused to fuck by the whole thing but the media narratives (on both sides) are so full of holes that they can only possibly work if you really want to believe them.
Quite.
I'm certainly confused to fuck by the whole thing but the media narratives (on both sides) are so full of holes that they can only possibly work if you really want to believe them.
Totally "fash"ed out over the last couple of pages.
I'm not sure where the idea that the Odessa events began with the attack on the camp on the square. It's reported basically universally that they began out in the city when a pro-unity Maidan sided march met with, or rather was attacked by an anti-maidan group. The stronger Maidan claim was that it began with a man from their group, largely football ultras - that's acknowledged - being shot through the head. Which, from videos of firearms on the anti-Maidan side, seems not implausible.
But, not at all to get conspiratorial, it's serious, and grim - it seems to be more complex. Considering the entire basis for the tragedy was the street fighting...
The 'Russian' side, in the events that pumped-up the violence that ended in the huge fire, were firing from the police lines. The men in fatigues, with red bands, red-starred shields, and covered in St. George ribbons - classic 'Pro-Russians.' The police knew they were armed, they fired from alongside them.
http://echo.msk.ru/blog/echomsk/1313090-echo/
So what is this? And what precedent could it be setting? Just my-enemy's-enemy, tolerating it from fear of overwhelming odds? Or police units bringing 'turned' anti-Maidan associates and ex-colleages? The Odessian police did essentially nothing until the entire centre of the union building was alight. These are the men of the Ministry which announced almost immediately that the building's occupants set themselves on fire.
Again, thanks for the research and civil tone. It's what this thread deserves.
Altough I can see what you're getting at and respect the fact you've provided the most substantial evidence so far that exremist fascists are in involved in the odessa resistance movement, there are a still fair few asumptions in there (The organisation itself seems..., I suspect the militia..., I found looks pretty dodgy)
Sure, I saw it on the wiki liknk from DaairyQueen and the links to extreme right wing marches in mainland russia from frogwoman. Sorry but I still dont see the fact that that means DO are right wing extremists. Thats why I asked for the transation and context of the OD banner. Thanks for answering that. Don't you agree that only having Odinov as a solitary connecion is still a bit ambiguous?
I personally think more conclusive research is needed on Slavic Unity and their significance. The DO Group links (just through one operative) I find a bit of a far stretch.
At the moment, personally, I think it's worth flagging and monitoring these 2 groups in Odessa and the one in Donesk. But alarm bells? Everyone will have their own threashold of when to set the alarm bells off. Personally, in such a fucked up situation in Ukraine (if not the whole of Eastern Europe) I think orders of magnitude is an appropriate scale to do so. Comparing the importance of these groups to Svoboda and Right Sector could well be crying wolf. I may be wrong and will gladly eat humble pie if it turns out that they really exist as an extremist, right wing, fascist element of the ant-kiev government side and, if they should end up with as much sway of public opinion and power than Svoboda/RS have via the coup gov.
Why would anti fascists deface a memorial to victims of fascism?
It couldn't be because they're not anti fash at all, could it? There must be some other explanation. Maybe the people who put the memorial up were Zionists? Mentioning zionism usually tends to mean you aren't racist. That must be it.
If you're going to report, do it properly, please, and say "some German Antifascists", as the signatories to that declaration don't constitute the entirety of German Antifa, only about a quarter of it at best (disappointingly).
I presume you mean "unambiguous", but have been reading so many wikipedia pages, that "disambiguated" has lodged in your mind.
That'd be, by the way, the symbols that turned up toward the end of the protests (before the snipers etc), would it?
Another celebration. How do you think the flag in the middle got into the middle of this happy event? Maybe its an ancient sign of good luck?
except thats plainly not a flag, is it ? Its actually a much larger banner we can only see a corner of from behind. Theres plainly something else on it we cant see . It can just as easily be, and I suggest is much more likely to be, an anti nazi banner making a comment about the Kiev junta.
Why can't people admit that there are fascists on both sides? I genuinely don't get it.
except thats plainly not a flag, is it ? Its actually a much larger banner we can only see a corner of from behind. Theres plainly something else on it we cant see . It can just as easily be, and I suggest is much more likely to be, an anti nazi banner making a comment about the Kiev junta.
When he clicks on 'show ignored content' he'll get to see lots of friendly black, yellow and white street parties.
I already posted where it was from! It was from this thread on another forum:
http://politicalhotwire.com/current-events/59997-russian-far-right-fight-power-2.html
I can't really be bothered to post everything several times because you can't be arsed to read
Three years before the Kiev junta existed.
I think it was November 4th 2010 in Moscow "Russian march" http://www.mtss.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4424&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=...the demo was a nationalist demo in 2011 in Russia !!
I think it was November 4th 2010 in Moscow "Russian march" http://www.mtss.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4424&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
Yeah I know - there are some who are looking for sort of Slavic far right 'unity'Just found a subtle link between the Ukraine nationalists and the Russian far right, something I've always suspected especially as groups like Slavic Union was outlawed by the Kremlin and hiding out in Norway. Anyway not to give to much away as I don't want the pages I know of to be blocked by the users.
Anyway one user posted on the wall of an officer from Right Sectors page a Russian flag and above "wait for us and we will soon arrive" the users profile seems to be locked down solid apart from one slip up in Google's annoying metadata saves and it turns out he is from Saint Petersburg.
Obviously with such little information it's impossible to read into the situation, but it could be the first signs of a unity between Russia's far right dissident and Ukraine's far right.
In addition to professional soldiers with experience of the wars in Chechnya now fighting for either side, there are also adventurers and vagabonds without any military discipline or experience. People are often more afraid of them than they are of the soldiers.
"Ruslan Mikeda, a volunteer guarding the barricade in front of an occupied police station, believes the pogrom in Slavyansk is completely in order," a reporter on the scene wrote for the online news server Worldcrunch. "People are coming to us and complaining about Gypsies. They want us to put things in order, to cleanse the town of the gypsies," said Mikeda, a former construction worker who has been out of a job for a year and a half.
Mikeda traveled to Kiev and joined the Right Sector because he wanted to acquire a weapon. He had no luck getting one there and claims to have come to the conclusion that the Kiev revolution is being managed by Jews.
He finally managed to get a weapon by joining the other side, a militia fighting against Kiev and for a free Republic of Donetsk. According to the author of the Worldcrunch report, aggressive anti-Semitism and xenophobia against Romani people were strongly evident from interviews with that militia and from the seditious signs on the barricades and on the walls of buildings there.
It seems that Fascism and nationalism are on the rise in both Russia and Ukraine. While information about fascisizing radicals in Ukraine has turned up rather often in the Czech media's reports about the events of February and March in Kiev, not many people in the Czech Republic know about the racially motivated murders and violence in Russia.