butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yes, see where you are. Defending the far right because of the above. How did you end up here?
Ukraine
- Thread starter Zabo
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I think we're getting the sort of reverse of the BBC and guardian stuff from december/jan - they didn't know what the symbols and colours meant -so we told them. This time we get people like pocket science etc in the role of the naive journalists.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Maybe what's written on it would give us some historical context specific to odessa. Just a hunch.
Flags can be wierd like that. I'm sure nobody in Italy gives a fuck about napoloen when they wave their tricolour
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yeah, when choosing that flag and that emblem and those shields and those weapons it was all just an accident and the words on the banner said vote lib-dem.
Jesus, this is the mirror image of that those BBC and guuardian reports about pro-democracy protesters who were openly parading in fascist colours and emblems behind them. Shameful abrogation.
Jesus, this is the mirror image of that those BBC and guuardian reports about pro-democracy protesters who were openly parading in fascist colours and emblems behind them. Shameful abrogation.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
How did you end up there?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Where - having to point out the whites to you?How did you end up there?
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Come on. The white power and SS symbols on maidan are way more disambiguous than that banner.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
And yet some people needed them picking out and explaining. Sort of like here and with you.
I like disambiguous though.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
"The fascists"? What part of the pro-monarchists being "hard right" don't you understand?
As usual when you are "sure" of something, you're wrong.
No change there, then.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I found it interesting that you stated that they appeared at the end of the original occupation. What might that tell us? I mean, I know what it tells me, but what might it tell people who think that RT is a relatively-unbiased info source?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Not really the same thing, is it, people "celebrating" a media event held for some old girl who's a titular head of state only, and people supporting the restoration of a monarchy whose final spasms caused millions on millions of deaths, both directly and indirectly.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Yep, they were imperial colours used in the 19th century and have been adopted by nationalist groups (not necessarily monarchist) since the dying days of the Soviet Union (the 'Black Hundredist' Pamyat in the 1980s).
The pogrom-inciting Movement Against Illegal Immigration (DPNI), which has been led by a former Pamyat member, used the colours.
The other flag has the Romanov imperial standard, along with 'Glory to Russia.'
The imperial standard always makes me think of Fortean Times, and pictures of two-headed animals and birds.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
And apparently I'll derive satisfaction from seeing both in the ground.
seventh bullet
sovietwave
It says Odesskya Druzhina. From some quick googling on the Russian web, this Odessa 'militia' appears to be a group of pro-Russians set up as an anti-Maidan force. Has CR been defending this lot recently?
From a VKontakte (Russian Facebook clone) page of theirs upsetting photos said to be of the aftermath of the recent fire (from inside the building) have been posted.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Sorry, you've lost me.What does it tell you?I found it interesting that you stated that they appeared at the end of the original occupation. What might that tell us? I mean, I know what it tells me, but what might it tell people who think that RT is a relatively-unbiased info source?
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Funny choice of word that: "celebrating"
From the same wiki page that DairyQueen and BA have refered to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_flags1858–1883Flag of the Russian Empire for "Celebrations"
seventh bullet
sovietwave
So, what do you think of Odesskaya Druzhina, pocketscience? Not noticed the scum in Russia who use those colours?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Getting desperate.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Odesskaya Druzhina says fuck all to me. I dont speek the lingo. That's why I asked for the translation. A bit of background would be good too.
But yeah sure, if they are indeed far-right then fuck 'em. Bunch of cunts simple as.
I still haven't been convinced though - that's why I said (for me at least) the jury's out.
One reason is, I really wouldn't understand the logic of an extreme right wing group standing shoulder to shoulder with another bunch of people with a banner that shows a strangled eagle with a swastika or vice versa.
Is it really a case of "our extreme right wing group's better than yours"?
I'd be the first to admit misjudgement of the whole situation if compelling evidence was provided but just 3 colours on that one single banner aren't doing it for me just yet.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Not really.
Convince me more. Please. It can't be hard. I'm open minded.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You just had it. You didn't accept it because - not any politically or historically informed research - it doesn't feel right. Mug.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No you're not. Look at the excuse after excuse you've thrown up this evening. You're a joker. The sort of anti-fascist that people like CR and other authoritarians prey on.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
there are far right groups attending leftist demonstrations in this country ffs (look at some of the filth at anti-war and Palestine demos, even some of the anti cuts stuff). Why is it so hard to believe that it could happen in Ukraine where 'communism' and 'anti fascism' have become identified with Russian nationalism and synonymous with this for some people?
The communist party in those countries is massively linked to Russian nationalism, they think it is all right to go around calling people nigger etc in Moldova. Of course the people on those demos aren't all far right but why is it so unbelievable that far right groups could adopt 'anti fascism' as a thing especially in a place where nationalism is so identified with the second world war?
The communist party in those countries is massively linked to Russian nationalism, they think it is all right to go around calling people nigger etc in Moldova. Of course the people on those demos aren't all far right but why is it so unbelievable that far right groups could adopt 'anti fascism' as a thing especially in a place where nationalism is so identified with the second world war?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I think that you're done here.
You can defend a far right celebration or admit what a far right march with shields and weapons means, what it asks about your anti-fascism or frankly, you can fuck off. You've brought nothing to this thread but this: maybe open far-righters are just having a party? Out of your depth, i'd hate to see it play out in real life. You'd be one of those poor mugs suffocating yesterday.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Ok, further evidence of what? This accepts that you've seen some evidence against a charge - what is the charge and what is the evidence. Say explicitly.
tony.c
Well-Known Member
Could you clarify what you mean by 'an anti-Maidan force'?
Is it they are against the original anti-corruption protests, or against the pro-EU supporters, or against the Right Sector/fascist activists.
I am guessing that you are saying that it is the first, or the first and second. But not the third?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Simple - because it fucks up left vs right narratives in these peoples minds. Even people in their 40s.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Because nobody has provided compelling evidence that that's the case?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What on earth makes you think that it would not be the third? Are you even watching this?
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