Ukraine

[frogwoman]

http://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2014-02-03/ukraine-a-nationalist-dead-end
here, i thought it was good myself (although who knows, it might be bollocks)

 

[teqniq]

Roger that. Meanwhile, some political idiot I know on facebook is trying to make this go viral:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/danielle-...n-this-needs-to-go-viral/#Ogs4hldZUwMLuDry.01

Two people I know have just posted that. I have encouraged them to read the article posted by Froggie and the other by Gramsci.

 

[elbows]

Sounds like the ability of 'protest leaders' to temper the street violence is being shown up as the 'Right Sector' aren't interested.

• The far-right Right Sector protest movement said it had not signed up to the truce and there was "nothing to negotiate"

From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26268620

(And here is what the BBC said about Right Sector in January: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25826238 )

 

[rekil]

As well as the usual Svoboda flags, there's a sneaky shot of a UNA-UNSO flag in that shitty video at the 1:06 mark.

According to a Polish guy on another forum, the far-right emblems and flags have been put away because they worked out that it's bad for their image.

Some casualties already today.

 

[frogwoman]

As well as the usual Svoboda flags, there's a sneaky shot of a UNA-UNSO flag in that shitty video at the 1:06 mark.

According to a Polish guy on another forum, the far-right emblems and flags have been put away because they worked out that it's bad for their image.

Some casualties already today.

which video?

 

[rekil]

which video?

The one Idris of the gifs linked to.

 

[Idris2002]

Idris of the gifs

"one sheep"

 

[J Ed]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/bl...-crisis-new-clashes-strain-truce-live-updates

Worrying stuff on the Graunid live feed atm. Says that 'radical protesters' (nice euphemism for neo-Nazis ffs) have the upper hand and are gaining ground.

Apparently this is "50 captured police"

 

[J Ed]

According to RT the 'democratic' opposition have taken over the hotel that their journalists are staying in and are shooting at them http://rt.com/news/rt-crew-kiev-maidan-898/

 

[Patteran]

Not sure if this has been posted before - startling recent footage shot from both sides of the lines - I know nothing about the film-maker.


Thanks for this thread. The level of debate, insight, and background information shames most mainstream media outlets.

 

[Teaboy]

Thanks for this thread. The level of debate, insight, and background information shames most mainstream media outlets.

It has been amazing that there is a virtual news black out of the heavy involvement of the far right, a memo must of gone out. In fact the only time I've heard it mentioned on national media in this country (if you can call it that) was on talk sport yesterday when a Ukrainian journo was on advising Spurs fans (who are playing in Ukraine) to not leave the airport but just connect. The talk sport bloke called Klitschko the leader of the opposition (working the sports angle) and the journo casually said he's a nobody and its all about the far right, the interview ended rapidly.

 

[Idris2002]

It has been amazing that there is a virtual news black out of the heavy involvement of the far right, a memo must of gone out. In fact the only time I've heard it mentioned on national media in this country (if you can call it that) was on talk sport yesterday when a Ukrainian journo was on advising Spurs fans (who are playing in Ukraine) to not leave the airport but just connect. The talk sport bloke called Klitschko the leader of the opposition (working the sports angle) and the journo casually said he's a nobody and its all about the far right, the interview ended rapidly.

"You cannot hope to bribe or twist,
Thank god, the British Journalist.
But seeing what the man will do,
Unbribed, there's no occasion to."

 

[Idris2002]

And Time magazine journos as well:
http://world.time.com/2014/02/04/ukraine-dmitri-yarosh-kiev/

This is an interview with one of the Right Sector leaders, which ladles on the soft soap pretty thickly.

 

[stowpirate]

The Olympics should be halted or at least the EU teams should pull out?

 

[Coolfonz]

http://live.reuters.com/Event/World_News

live feed from the square

 

[TruXta]

The Olympics should be halted or at least the EU teams should pull out?

Why? The OGs are in Russia, not Ukraine. Besides there's always a war on - should the Olympics never run when there's a conflict somewhere? Don't get me wrong, the IOC and the OGs are shit, but this seems nonsensical to me.

 

[rekil]

Thanks for this thread. The level of debate, insight, and background information shames most mainstream media outlets.

With the added bonus that there's always the possibility that a 20 page derail and bunfight about cleaners, lightbulbs, literally anything, could kick off at any moment.

 

[Teaboy]

The Olympics should be halted or at least the EU teams should pull out?

Don't worry, it doesn't matter as no one is watching, least of all at the actual events.

 

[camouflage]

i saw a couple of people post that last night. an acquaintance of mine who i think has good politics was talking about friends and cdes of hers involved in the protests. Either she's really naive or there are all right people involved, it wouldn't surprise me given the situation in MD if it was the latter, no way should we be supporting this uncritically though.

The CWO posted a really good analysis of it actually - "ukraine, a nationalist dead end", i'll post that when im back from work

Had a quick google of "ukraine, a nationalist dead end", a scan seems to accept the same narrative of events we see on the likes of C4 or the BBC. Are you sure it's kosha?

 

[stowpirate]

Why? The OGs are in Russia, not Ukraine. Besides there's always a war on - should the Olympics never run when there's a conflict somewhere? Don't get me wrong, the IOC and the OGs are shit, but this seems nonsensical to me.

Who do you think is really pulling the strings?

 

[TruXta]

Who do you think is really pulling the strings?

I think the days of thinking there are clear strings to puppets and their masters are more or less over. Sure the Russians are well and truly inside this, but to lay it all at their doorstep seems naive to me.

 

[DotCommunist]

It has been amazing that there is a virtual news black out of the heavy involvement of the far right, a memo must of gone out. In fact the only time I've heard it mentioned on national media in this country (if you can call it that) was on talk sport yesterday when a Ukrainian journo was on advising Spurs fans (who are playing in Ukraine) to not leave the airport but just connect. The talk sport bloke called Klitschko the leader of the opposition (working the sports angle) and the journo casually said he's a nobody and its all about the far right, the interview ended rapidly.

the beeb did have an article faintly alluding to the far right nature of the protesters. but other than that, amazing. it's not even D notice supressed news its a kind of consensual non-discussion from the main media outlets

 

[butchersapron]

Had a quick google of "ukraine, a nationalist dead end", a scan seems to accept the same narrative of events we see on the likes of C4 or the BBC. Are you sure it's kosha?

First time i've ever seen the BBC and C4 being criticised for being purist ultra-left semi-bordiguists!

 

[Coolfonz]

i have to say some of the analysis here seems a bit too focussed on Right Sector, scum that they are of course along with the far right political parties.

there is no doubt some people in ukraine support the far right/nationalist movements. you can see it from the elections.

so when you get a mass movement - and it is pretty mass in scale - of people attacking the established political class - all the sides in the ukraine are corrupt and crooks, yanukovich, timoshenko et al, you are bound to get involvement from these people. there is also a huge wedge of evidence of people not in the far right supporting this movement and being there right now, tweeting, medics etc.

if the same thing happened in the UK you might well find yourself filling bottles with petrol next to someone from the edl or ukip.

rather like the revolution in serbia that outsed milosevic (with less violence).

 

[frogwoman]

Had a quick google of "ukraine, a nationalist dead end", a scan seems to accept the same narrative of events we see on the likes of C4 or the BBC. Are you sure it's kosha?

I know some of the people involved and while i do have differences with their politics, yes it is

 

[butchersapron]

i have to say some of the analysis here seems a bit too focussed on Right Sector, scum that they are of course along with the far right political parties.

there is no doubt some people in ukraine support the far right/nationalist movements. you can see it from the elections.

so when you get a mass movement - and it is pretty mass in scale - of people attacking the established political class - all the sides in the ukraine are corrupt and crooks, yanukovich, timoshenko et al, you are bound to get involvement from these people. there is also a huge wedge of evidence of people not in the far right supporting this movement and being there right now, tweeting, medics etc.

if the same thing happened in the UK you might well find yourself filling bottles with petrol next to someone from the edl or ukip.

rather like the revolution in serbia that outsed milosevic (with less violence).

The people from the far right that have been concentrated on here (and it's precisely the mainstream media's ignoring of them, allied with the dangers them gaining the upper hand would bring socially and regionally that's led to that concentration) are far far beyond the edl or UKIP.

 

[frogwoman]

First time i've ever seen the BBC and C4 being criticised for being purist ultra-left semi-bordiguists!

 

[butchersapron]

I know some of the people involved and while i do have differences with their politics, yes it is

And us usual with ultra-left predictions they have it bang on the money:

Since January 16 too the demonstrations and occupations have begun to really spread to the Donetsk clan’s heartland in Eastern and Southern Ukraine. This has given Yanukovich pause for thought. The regime is now backing down and seeking a negotiated way out. The January 16 laws have been rescinded, the Prime Minister and his Cabinet have resigned and Yanukovich has made several offers of deals to the opposition to calm things. Even the oligarchs who back Yanukovich have warned of the danger of civil war and call for more dialogue.

I find that quite amazing, year after year they predict imminent inter-imperialist war yet manage to misread a quite clear escalation as cooling off.

 

[frogwoman]

And us usual with ultra-left predictions they have it bang on the money:



I find that quite amazing, year after year they predict imminent inter-imperialist war yet manage to misread a quite clear escalation as cooling off.

 

[DotCommunist]

what I don't understand is just why the media refusal to look at the far rightist nature of it. Are the fourth estate so wedded to the EU ideal that they'll happily ignore wolf hooks and resurgent nazism? Has their been a round robbin? Surely they know what they are ignoring.