Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Ukraine

butchersapron said:
tu qouqe . . . Anyway, you're actually with the pedantry police :mad:
Click to expand...
so 'qua' is forbidden but 'tu qouqe' is au fait?

Glad it wasn't the Pederasty Police or the Anti-Pederast Police.

But Punctuation Police it is (although we are a unit of the Pedantry Police) - & the state is never wrong, as the protestors will find out.

Meanwhile, back in Ukraine . . .
 
there's only one way to stop a bloodbath: get Pussy Riot to call Ukraine & get those topless feministas to form a cordon. Everyone would smile, shake hands, & go home.

QED, yes?
 
Anyone know what kind power these regional councils have? Are they like county councils in the UK or more powerful - like the German Lander or something?
 
Ooops:

Weapons and ammunition have been stolen from a Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) department in the Ivano-Frankovsk region, said Volodymyr Porodko, deputy head of the Ukrainian Security Service.

"A total of 268 service pistols, two rifles, three assault rifles, 92 grenades, and some 15,000 cartridges were seized in a Ukrainian Security Service department in the Ivano-Frankovsk region," SBU deputy head Vladimir Porodko said at a meeting with foreign ambassadors at the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry on Wednesday.
Click to expand...

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...stolen-from-Security-Service-department-0204/
 
Rubbish folky dude serenading the fashmob from the stage at the moment. Total *silence* between tunes.

Check him out!

 
Last edited:
Mustn't grumble said:
And it was Stalin's genocidal crime, as well as the authoritarianism & Great Russian Chauvinism of the All-Union Communist Party (bolsheviks), that helped garner support for the invading Nazis - & fuel hatred of Judaic Ukrainians. Support for the German invaders, liberators from Stalinism, had its reasons, not all of them irrational.
Click to expand...

Proportionately, the Kazakhs as a group were the most devastated as a result of famine than anywhere else (it hit them first and hardest), with more than a third of the population starving to death and more than half a million having to migrate elsewhere to survive. That wasn't 'genocide,' though. And like in Ukraine, I'd say it was more indifference in the 'necessary' pursuit of 'building socialism' than yet another example of Stalin just not being a very nice man.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/bl...r-police-storm-kiev-protest-camp-live-updates

Obama sez

The United States condemns in the strongest terms the violence that’s taking place. And we have been deeply engaged with our European partners as well as the Ukrainian government and the opposition to try to ensure that that violence ends. But we hold the Ukrainian government primarily responsible for making sure that it is dealing with peaceful protestors in an appropriate way, that the Ukrainian people are able to assemble and speak freely about their interests without fear of repression.

And I want to be very clear as we work through these next several days in Ukraine that we’re going to be watching closely and we expect the Ukrainian government to show restraint, to not resort to violence in dealing with peaceful protestors. We’ve also said we expect peaceful protestors to remain peaceful and we’ll be monitoring very closely the situation, recognising that with our European partners and the international community there will be consequences if people step over the line
Click to expand...

Where are all these 'peaceful protesters'?
 
Some bloke singing A Las Barricadas on the stage now. Or a version of it. Or a version of the Polish original. Bloomin' sauce regardless.
 
To be honest it really wouldn't surprise me if there were ordinary people out there as well, certainly in Moldova it was a very mixed affair politically ...
 
cynicaleconomy said:
Let's imagine for a second that most of the protesters are not fash, and that they are just allowing the fash to do the dirty work. Like I said earlier in the thread, what makes them think they can put the genie back in the bottle? If the Ukrainian state falls due to the violence of the far-right, then a bunch of peaceful protesters have no chance against them. I can't see the Right Sector just saying "oh go on then, it's all yours now".
Click to expand...
Precisely, the idea that these scum won't be strengthened by their successes is ludicrous.
 
DrRingDing said:
There are some Anarchists!

http://avtonom.org/news/maydan-shturm-komendatury-ukrainskogo-doma-narodnoe-veche-i-chernaya-sotnya
Click to expand...

From Google translate.

On the morning of February 9 in social networks appeared a video in which a crowd of people rushed to the commandant of the Ukrainian House ( More information about the protesters seized the building) . Bloggers named storm event , but volunteers Ukrainian House said that 's just one of " hundreds " ( teams ) self protesters decided that the commandant in the building is no longer needed . Other narrators said that the squad wanted to have more space in the Ukrainian House. Anyway , hundreds of representatives and the commandant agreed among themselves , and the commandant was released.Arrangements and details of the incident are not generally interested in any of the volunteers Ukrainian house, with whom the author spoke . On debugged using grassroots self-organization of life captured building " assault " is not affected in any way. Many of those who slept there in the morning , during the " assault " does not even wake up .

Happy Independence held on so-called " Popular Assembly " . The people on it are collected - was filled with not only the area , but some surrounding streets . But here's the list of speakers from the podium has been approved in advance, and entered it only known opposition ." Opposition leaders " said that the streets people will go only if you change the country's constitution and early re-election of the president. They also called for action to expand the territory of self-defense squads and not only patrol the streets of Kiev, but also create teams in provincial cities .
All the people with whom the author spoke at the Independence , stated that they are not going to go with a self-governing territory , and believe that it should be extended to the whole of Ukraine .Several protesters said that under the pretext of changing the constitution , " opposition leaders " want to steal from the people the right to establish territorial self-governing communities , which is enshrined in the legislation . In the case of the passage in Parliament of such initiatives protesters promise to " demolish the opposition leaders with the regime of Yanukovych ."Evening of February 9 , it was announced the construction of a new self-defense squads Maidan , which has received the informal name " Black Hundreds ." Among its participants and participants many anarchists , socialists and anti-fascists , and protesters have undecided political views.It should be noted that not all anarchists Kiev reacted positively to this initiative , because to build a " Black Hundreds " reached by the participants of the nationalist organization " Standalone Opir ." Initiators of the project told the author that the Special Representative of JSC they did not invite someone brought them personal acquaintance .Vigilantes broke into dozens chosen coordinator " foremen " and waited for the registration of representatives commandant hundreds . But first came the squad consisting of supporters of the nationalist party "Freedom" and other far-right views people . Since came " Heroes" ( there were about 150 people ) has already been registered , all the participants were wearing helmets , flak jackets and baseball bats .Nationalists claimed that leftist people have no place in Madani , because their ideology is destructive . And " among you hachi " . Antifascists were asked whether their opponents called hachom one of the victims on the Maidan in fights with the police , who wore an Armenian surname . For a time there was a discussion , but then had to leave the anti-fascists from the Maidan due to the superior force of the enemy. Following them nationalists shouting anti-communist slogans .
Later anarchists and anti-fascists returned to Independence . On the night until the present moment more collisions with the nationalists was no more.I must say that Maidana activists and journalists who witnessed the conflict , considered the right behavior negatively. This opinion is shared mainly and social network users , who commented on the news .Still difficult to predict how adversely affect a large number of ultra- factor for the presence of anarchists and left-wing activists and spread their ideas. Earlier , in late November , police conflicts have already occurred . But on the other hand, anarchists expand their activities among the protesters . Activists come from other cities and countries. And , as reported in the article about the Ukrainian House , on the Free University has repeatedly held discussions in the left agenda .
Click to expand...
 
Special Representative of JSC they did not invite someone brought them personal acquaintance .Vigilantes broke into dozens chosen coordinator " foremen " and waited for the registration of representatives commandant hundreds
Click to expand...

man google translate is really, really shit
 
DotCommunist said:
man google translate is really, really shit
Click to expand...

--> English: "man google translate is really, really shit"
--> Persian: "مرد از گوگل ترجمه واقعا، واقعا گه"
--> Spanish: "Hombre Google traduce realmente, realmente una mierda"
--> Lao: "ຜູ້ຊາຍກູໂກແປກໍ່ດູດ"
--> Spanish again: "Traductor Google es una mierda hombre"
--> English: "Google Translate is a shit man"
 
free spirit said:
On Bandera, the OUN-B and that flag...


So my conclusion fwiw would be that the widespread presence of this flag, alongside the Ukrainian flag isn't necessarily that indicative of the level of outright fascists within the protest, and it's certainly helped me to get my head around why such large numbers of protestors who aren't fascists themselves are prepared to fight alongside fascists under these 2 flags.

Some background reading for anyone interested.
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2010/feb/24/a-fascist-hero-in-democratic-kiev/
http://hnn.us/article/122778
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera
Click to expand...

You might be interested in Snyders book on this region "Bloodlands"

One thing you omit is that a target of these Ukrainian nationalists in WW2 were the Poles. This continued after WW2 ended. The Ukrainian nationalists were not only fighting the Soviets after WW2. This was ethnic cleansing of Poles.

After WW2 when Stalin incorporated pre WW2 Polish lands into Ukraine most Poles left.
 
Last edited:
Idris2002 said:
And Georgia 2008.
Click to expand...

completely different situation and different politics at work. The Georgians launched an all out military assault on the autonomous regions, massacring the civilian population with a massive indiscriminate artillery barrage and killing Russian peacekeeping troops. Their leader was a complete idiot taking his cue from the likes of that other warmongering idiot John ..we are all Gergians now..McCain. He actually believed he had NATO backing and that the Russians wouldnt intervene.

The Georgians then got their asses spanked in short order . Had they not done theres little doubt the population they were targetting would have been expelled. As soon as the threat to the enclaves had been disarmed, the Georgian armys heavy weapons were simply seized and destroyed , the Russians then packed up and left, leaving the very same idiot in power. They most certainly did not occupy Georgia or appoint a puppet government, so theres no comparison with either Hungary or Czechslovakia.
Anything similar as regards Crimea will most likely see a similar response.
 
i saw a couple of people post that last night. an acquaintance of mine who i think has good politics was talking about friends and cdes of hers involved in the protests. Either she's really naive or there are all right people involved, it wouldn't surprise me given the situation in MD if it was the latter, no way should we be supporting this uncritically though.

The CWO posted a really good analysis of it actually - "ukraine, a nationalist dead end", i'll post that when im back from work

Idris2002 said:
Roger that. Meanwhile, some political idiot I know on facebook is trying to make this go viral:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/danielle-...n-this-needs-to-go-viral/#Ogs4hldZUwMLuDry.01
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Is Zelensky no longer convenient both inside and outside Ukraine? [Bot spam]
2
Replies
43
Views
4K
existentialist
existentialist
editor
New Ukraine forum
Replies
0
Views
563
editor
editor
Pickman's model
Ukraine after the war
2 3
Replies
62
Views
6K
phildwyer
phildwyer
YouSir
Global Fallout from the Ukraine War
Replies
23
Views
2K
not-bono-ever
not-bono-ever
MrCurry
After Ukraine, what’s next?
2 3
Replies
76
Views
5K
Dogsauce
Dogsauce
Back
Top Bottom