Ukraine

[Casually Red]

theres a regiment of russian troops already in 'nistria- they secure the borders already

theres also representatives from 8 different countries, including Ukraine, invited into Russia to monitor any troop movements along the Ukrainian border . Doesnt sound like any of them have spotted this .

http://rt.com/news/russia-troops-limit-border-673/

 

[tim]

tell you what, you just keep posting that weird stuff cheif and covering yourself in glory . I havent wanked myself into a frenzy over fascists . Ive called a fascist coup for what it was . Like a few others its clear youve a major problem with it being pointed out . No idea why, no idea why the Guardian and others ignored it but im far from the only one on here whos remarked on that .

It seems your the latest in a line of outraged weirdos whove taken to following me about trying to make some point or other . Knock yourself out .

More of a putsch than a coup since there seems to have been very little input from the military. As to Fascists being involved who has denied that here. However, clearly most of those involved were not fascists.

Anyway it's amusing to see that you too have succumbed to typo madness.

 

[seventh bullet]

Just for your further erudition that young lady in question isnt even a member of the group . Russias National Bolsheviks have long used pictures of pretty women brandishing kalshnikovs and the like in an attempt to drum up support from the sad and gullible . None of them are members, theyre all professional models who must be a bit desperate for work .

If I remember correctly she was indeed a member (saw her in a YouTube video at an opposition press conference back in 2007/08). The girls and guns stuff, rather than a mere recruiting tool for dumb 'blokey' pricks, is a part of the convergence of nationalist politics and the counter-cultural underground (with its art and music scenes) of the late Soviet years and into the 1990s.

Dugin with former third-rate Soviet 'dissident' Eduard Limonov and Igor Letov (of Soviet-era Siberian punk band Grazhdanskaya Oborona) at an NBP press conference in 1994.



Also, years back I noticed one of the young women from the 'our combat girlfriends' section of their now-defunct website appearing in pictures of NBP members in prison, and looking dangerously ill from carrying out a hunger strike.

The Eurasian Youth Movement also does the piss-taking. Here is one of Dugin's leading young Eurasianists, Natella Speranskaya, doing the Kalashnikov thing.

 

[Knotted]

I think your overlooking the missing bit of your jigsaw, which was the failure of the proxies to acheive their objectives, followed by direct NATO intervention that Putin played a major role in scuppering. There was quite a discussion about it on here . NATO military interventon would have made it a lot different to a civil war .

Sure but the part of the jigsaw that you are missing is the Russian role in propping up a brutal dictatorship, a neo-liberal regime, a torture state and a careful guard of Israel's occupation of the Golan. (Not that the armed opposition would be any better of course).

Russia isnt going to lose any bases in Sevastopol . Its back in Russia now.

More's the pity.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

theres a regiment of russian troops already in 'nistria- they secure the borders already

How about Moldova: any upstart fascists seizing the govt. there?

NATO's top military commander said on Sunday Russia had built up a "very sizeable" force on its border with Ukraine and Moscow may have a region in another ex-Soviet republic, Moldova, in its sights after annexing Crimea.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/g7-lea...etherlands-for-ukraine-crisis-talks-1.2583287

 

[thriller]

the lack of tactical awareness of these Ukrainians is baffling. Just recognise you have lost Crimea. Withdraw and concentrate on defending the rest of mother Ukraine against mother Russia.

It reminds me of the stupid tactics of Saddam Hussein-if I was a general in the Iraqi army during the second gulf war, the coalition would have either suffered heavy losses or would have taken much longer to overthrow the Saddam

I called it.

Ukraine orders Crimea withdrawal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26713727

 

[TomUS]

I called it.

Ukraine orders Crimea withdrawal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26713727

It was inevitable. I'm surprised it took them so long.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Putin wasnt in power at the time. His mate was. Medvedev was up Obamas hole thinking there was a real post Bush sea change in the USA and believing the hype. While Putin was arguing there was no change, something hes consistently argued . It resulted in the only ever public spat between the 2 men .
On Thursday, acting on instructions from Medvedev, Russia abstained from the U.N. Security Council resolution imposing a no-fly zone over Libya but did not veto it, something that Putin obviously thought should have happened.

Medvedev has developed a close working relationship with President Barack Obama but Putin has a prickly relationship with Washington. At the factory Monday, Putin took aim not only at Medvedev's refusal to use his veto, but at the U.S. leadership:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/03/21/russia.leaders.libya/index.html

they had more than an econmic relationship . Russia had naval assets there . It left them overly dependent upon Tartus. Which was next on the list .

medvedev/putin is one ticket, no? They just swap hats every few years.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What, so a black ops mission wouldn't buy any weapons from different sources rather than get them straight from NATO?

CR claimed they were "NATO issue". They're very clearly not.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It will shore up some more votes for the right-wing, sure. But...



... the only "military solution" is a complete annihilation of the Ukrainian military or Ukraine itself.

You may have noted that I put quotation marks around the word "solution". That's because a military "solution" for the Kyiv govt would be one that doesn't involve conflict, but does involve a lot of conflict-based posturing.

By the way, the Russians don't want a "comlete annihilation of Ukraine, they want their bread basket back, preferably with a compliant client population.
That's the problem with Ukraine's neighbours: They all feel that Ukraine belongs to them, not to itself.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The elements that are in control of the cops and the army. Defacto control of the country.

In charge of ministries.
If you believe that a minister, even an idiot fascist, is going to purge their ministries (let alone their forces) of "non-believers" at a time of crisis, you're mistaken. It took Hitler years to sufficiently-purge his own military and police. They're still having to act within the law for the time being, so "de-facto control of the country" is hyperbole.

 

[frogwoman]

jesus christ the amount of crap being spouted on the issue by self-proclaimed leftists on either "side" of the ukraine "debate" (somehow the working class never figures in this equation) is fucking unbelievable.

 

[ViolentPanda]

some reactions here from Ukraines neighbour and trading partner...for the time being.. Belarus. According to that the turnover in trade between the 2 amounts to 7 billion, not to be sniffed at .

http://rt.com/news/belarus-crimea-part-russia-657/

Lukashenko is an even bigger thief than Yanukovich was, and has been up Russia's arse since independence.

 

[frogwoman]

Lukashenko is an even bigger thief than Yanukovich was, and has been up Russia's arse since independence.

also, anyone thinking that russia's motivations are to do with "anti-fascism" would do well to look at lukashenko's record towards opposition in belarus and some of the racism and homophobia that's gone on there

 

[ViolentPanda]

but hey, lets just sound clever spouting gun porn and ignore the dirty big USA and Union jack flags taking centre stage in the fash bunker during the middle of a fash bomb making class . Theres no link to the US and Britian there at all, no sireebob . None in the slightest . Its just a flag enthusiast, doing what flag enthusiasts do .

Because obviously Euro and Eurasian fascists wouldn't have flags up of countries that had sizeable "new right" presences in their polities. That couldn't possibly be the reason for the flags, could it?

By the way, you're the dummy who claimed the weapons were NATO issue. Take responsibility for your own bullshit errors, there's a good chap.

 

[ViolentPanda]

also, anyone thinking that russia's motivations are to do with "anti-fascism" would do well to look at lukashenko's record towards opposition in belarus and some of the racism and homophobia that's gone on there

Racism, homophobia and downright misanthropy. Lukashenko's policies on AIDS has seen a sizeable minority of his state's IV drug-users and sex workers dead.

 

[Kesher]

More of a putsch than a coup since there seems to have been very little input from the military. As to Fascists being involved who has denied that here. However, clearly most of those involved were not fascists.

Many of the putsch government members holding key posts are ultra nationalists. The Prime minister (Yatsenyuk) may not be a fascist; but he is a right wing bankster

 

[treelover]

Dugin with former third-rate Soviet 'dissident' Eduard Limonov and Igor Letov (of Soviet-era Siberian punk band Grazhdanskaya Oborona) at an NBP press conference in 1994.

How do you become a 'third rate dissident'?

 

[Pickman's model]

How do you become a 'third rate dissident'?

you'll need to try harder, you're languishing round the fifth-rate at the moment.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

jesus christ the amount of crap being spouted on the issue by self-proclaimed leftists on either "side" of the ukraine "debate" (somehow the working class never figures in this equation) is fucking unbelievable.

tbh I think it's a reflection of the confusion of the situation. I certainly don't know exactly what position to take on many of the specifics. For me, too many people on both sides are falling for nationalist positions of one kind or another.

 

[Pickman's model]

jesus christ the amount of crap being spouted on the issue by self-proclaimed leftists on either "side" of the ukraine "debate" (somehow the working class never figures in this equation) is fucking unbelievable.

many leftists have never got over the demise of the ussr and therefore see putin's russia as some sort of comfort substitute.

 

[Delroy Booth]

many leftists have never got over the demise of the ussr and therefore see putin's russia as some sort of comfort substitute.

Yup - really tragic considering this is a state that doesn't even pay lip-service to socialism in the way the USSR did. They don't even pretend to be socialists yet for some fucking reason people are still quite happy to excuse and defend the aggressive and imperialist behaviour of the Russian state.

 

[Fuchs66]

Yup - really tragic considering this is a state that doesn't even pay lip-service to socialism in the way the USSR did. They don't even pretend to be socialists yet for some fucking reason people are still quite happy to excuse and defend the aggressive and imperialist behaviour of the Russian state.

It's because they wear those big furry hats! How can you be a fascist with a big furry hat?

Unlike, of course that lot with the shaven heads! Fucking nazi swine!

 

[treelover]

you'll need to try harder, you're languishing round the fifth-rate at the moment.

ah, so one up from you...

 

[seventh bullet]

How do you become a 'third rate dissident'?

That's what he fancied himself as being. The Soviet elite couldn't have given a fuck what he did.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Get the fuck out of town, you're consistently one of the worst offenders when it comes to being ultra-partisan

well, occasionally, I suppose.

and un-objective in what you put up here!

quite possibly

You're every bit as revolting as Casually Red in your own special way. Worse in some ways infact.

Now, there's just no need for that kind of abuse. I am appalled.

 

[Pickman's model]

ah, so one up from you...

i'm not trying to be a dissident at all

 

[DairyQueen]

many leftists have never got over the demise of the ussr and therefore see putin's russia as some sort of comfort substitute.

Not sure where these "many" leftists are, most seem to just supporting protests and worker control. They are certainly not rooting for the current government in Kyiv or the EU if that is all you are implying.

Casually Red is not really articulating a leftist position at all, as far as I can tell it is mainly just schadenfreude (that is a bit unfair), and folk like George Galloway do not espouse any coherent left-wing ideology.

 

[seventh bullet]

Yup - really tragic considering this is a state that doesn't even pay lip-service to socialism in the way the USSR did. They don't even pretend to be socialists yet for some fucking reason people are still quite happy to excuse and defend the aggressive and imperialist behaviour of the Russian state.

I guess it's a matter of when the USSR started to pay lip-service to socialism as they understood it. It wasn't just pretence, was it? At least for a time.

 

[Delroy Booth]

I guess it's a matter of when the USSR started to pay lip-service to socialism as they understood it. It wasn't just pretence, was it? At least for a time.

We're sidetracking here but I think they'd more or less given up on anything meaningfully socialist in the 20's and 30's, and between the death of Stalin in '53 and the hungarian crisis of '56 the whole communist movement worldwide was in ruins. Everything after that was pure lip-service imo.