seventh bullet
sovietwave
Didn't danny start one already?
I aint no ID pol headbanger. I am of the wrong class for starters.
I aint no ID pol headbanger. I am of the wrong class for starters.
Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?
- Thread starter The Flying Pig
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q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
I've just read this whole thread and my god, it is depressing. A whole heap of lefties appear to be either defending this shit, or taking the Donald Trump line of "bad people on both sides".
This was a meeting which was open to all self-identified women, with a trans woman as a speaker. The original venue was intimidated into cancelling, the next venue had to be kept secret for safety reasons, and women met in public to ensure each others safety. Still a woman got punched and people on this thread seems to take the "she was asking for it" line.
There is a parasitic element within the trans community, people who conform to male behaviour patterns and who exhibit enormous amounts of male entitlement, but who self-define as women. If these people went to a shop and then you asked a random checkout assistant whether the person they just served was a man or a woman, they would almost certainly say "man". The only indicator that they are not a man is that the poor checkout assistant would then get "FUCKING TRANSPHOBE" screamed in her face (if the checkout assistant was a man of course, they would never do such a thing). These anti-feminist trans activists are often the loudest within much of the trans community, and from looking at the videos, I'd guess that at least two of them, possibly all, fit into that category.
"Feminazi" is an old MRA insult, yet you see it getting resurrected in the discourse here with comparison between "TERFs" and fascists. "Die in a fire" is the most beloved advice of anti-feminist trans activists, who want to burn the witches.
The trans community needs to condemn the misogyny in its midst, not facilitate it and excuse it. I'm pretty down with trans women, I think they have a great deal to teach feminists about gender and I wish that they would have more involvement in the feminist movement - but these misogynist pricks who self-define as women cos its politically expedient, but who still expect male levels of entitlement and attention from other women; exhibit toxic patterns of behaviour which are most commonly found in men, and consider it A-OK to carry on this toxic behaviour because they think that women can get away with it (info-note, they cant, women who use physical violence get harsher sentances) and who demand that lesbians suck their dicks, and sit around discussing how to get through their "cotton ceiling" can fuck right off.
Solidarity with trans women, except for self-entitled, rapey, violent misogynist ones, doesnt really seem that hard a concept for the left to grasp...but here we are.
"
This was a meeting which was open to all self-identified women, with a trans woman as a speaker. The original venue was intimidated into cancelling, the next venue had to be kept secret for safety reasons, and women met in public to ensure each others safety. Still a woman got punched and people on this thread seems to take the "she was asking for it" line.
There is a parasitic element within the trans community, people who conform to male behaviour patterns and who exhibit enormous amounts of male entitlement, but who self-define as women. If these people went to a shop and then you asked a random checkout assistant whether the person they just served was a man or a woman, they would almost certainly say "man". The only indicator that they are not a man is that the poor checkout assistant would then get "FUCKING TRANSPHOBE" screamed in her face (if the checkout assistant was a man of course, they would never do such a thing). These anti-feminist trans activists are often the loudest within much of the trans community, and from looking at the videos, I'd guess that at least two of them, possibly all, fit into that category.
"Feminazi" is an old MRA insult, yet you see it getting resurrected in the discourse here with comparison between "TERFs" and fascists. "Die in a fire" is the most beloved advice of anti-feminist trans activists, who want to burn the witches.
The trans community needs to condemn the misogyny in its midst, not facilitate it and excuse it. I'm pretty down with trans women, I think they have a great deal to teach feminists about gender and I wish that they would have more involvement in the feminist movement - but these misogynist pricks who self-define as women cos its politically expedient, but who still expect male levels of entitlement and attention from other women; exhibit toxic patterns of behaviour which are most commonly found in men, and consider it A-OK to carry on this toxic behaviour because they think that women can get away with it (info-note, they cant, women who use physical violence get harsher sentances) and who demand that lesbians suck their dicks, and sit around discussing how to get through their "cotton ceiling" can fuck right off.
Solidarity with trans women, except for self-entitled, rapey, violent misogynist ones, doesnt really seem that hard a concept for the left to grasp...but here we are.
"
Athos
Well-Known Member
Recently? I can't find it.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
FYI
Put you across my knee and give you the hiding you deserve? OK, that seems appropriate.
Also in that first paragraph she talks about her 'sympathy' for trans people at the same time as expressly denying their right to exist.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
There may be some truth in it but it's missing an important point, which is that the two 'sides' here are not equal. One side is the noisy public face of a set of commonly held prejudices, the defenders of the status quo, the 'I'm just saying what you're all thinking' brigade. The other side is people whose health and safety are genuinely at risk from bigotry and ignorance.
One side has nothing whatsoever to lose, besides the time and energy they've already spent grinding ther little axe. The other side, if they do nothing to defend themselves, risk losing their right to exist.
The Pale King
Well-Known Member
Without addressing any substantive points (I have nothing useful to contribute) it is interesting how Trans has become a 'wedge issue' around which certain political coalitions (including often quite surprising instances of allyship) can form. As Jed pointed out earlier, there is a lot of crossover between anti-left, Blairite revivalists and anti-trans activism. The second thing is that other things are going on here - there is simply too much of a focus on bathrooms, disproportionate to how widespread the phenomenon is. This is a vehicle for wider anxieties. A moral panic around which political coalitions can form. I think we should be suspicious of the resurgence of 'it's biology, stupid' type thinking - the need to find an 'objective' or 'scientific' basis for socio-cultural categories leads nowhere good.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Calling 'terfs' misogynists though is not a good look. It's plain wrong and easily refuted.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
She's doing more than that. She's denying that they can exist. She defines them out of existence. At the same time she purports to support 'feminine men' while also dismissing their concerns as trivial - 'who the hell cares'. Yeah transgender people never get grief. Everyone's cool with it. She actually has zero empathy.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
That whole post is pretty unsettling on a number of levels. I can only imagine what it feels like to be on the recieving end of all that stuff, and I don't feel in a position to criticise how those who are on the recieving end choose to respond. Hitting someone was clearly a tactical error, as it's handed a ranting idiot a platfrom, but was it morally wrong? I don't think you should be allowed to talk unlimited amounts of hateful shit and not expect consequences. There is more than one kind of violence.
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
The same story has been posted several times you dozy git. Tho I'm not surprised it's a Daily Mail version you approve.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
I see *some* cis women [cis allies who may not identify as feminists] doing this and I can't say I've seen a lot of trans people making his claim, though the TERFs certainly value masculinity above feminity which possibly is where the claims come from.
Also a lot of us experience a huge amount of harassment just for getting on with our lives. For example, when I stood for election a TERF group tried to get me deselected for being a misogynist, then my name appeared in the new statesman named as a trans activist misogynist and after that a website calling me a child rapist and I had to lock my twitter account down because of the all the hate tweets I was getting from TERFs. After that I had to be persuaded not to quit. But the same happens to a less extreme level to anyone of us who speaks out, whether we're challenging TERF ideology directly or just existing. Ask any out and visible trans woman how much TERF harassment they get.
I don't recognise the description earlier re two groups obsessed with each other. Most trans people I know don't have anything to with them, want nothing to do with them, but sadly, I've seen them turn up uninvited to our meetings to disrupt. So, who's obsessed? They can think what they like, I just wish they'd leave us alone.
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Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
only one person hit back and a small group attempted to protest peacefully. The vast majority of us stayed away on purpose.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Could you expand on this, please?
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
id rather someone prove first that trans women call TERFs misogynist which is what I was refuting. I think that's wrong. Doesn't happen except maybe in extreme and isolated cases.
Treacle Toes
Time
Could you expand on this please?
I asked earlier in the thread whether you have much experience of this happening and in which context it happens?
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Who do you think you're kidding?
The Flying Pig
Well-Known Member
Did not say I approve, but it is the only one I can fully understand! We are not all up there at the front with what goes on in the London bubble.
Mungy
i haz boobz
I've been debating in a FB group and we got to this point. A man decided that the WHO definition of violence was the only acceptable interpretation of violence and that I was in error in holding views contrary to this. People were agreeing with him, women for the most part, there are only a few males in there as far as I am aware. I walked away at this point, as did the feminists that were debating with the TE people. The violence is sometimes subtle, controlling and nasty. Parading as being sensible, appealing to authority. It gets difficult when you are one voice or just a handful of voices. The moment we raise our tone we give them ammunition, "See they are being violent, because really they are just men." It always comes back to name calling and school yard tactics.
I don't like the term TERF because it can be used as an insult. So I don't use it. They don't like being called cis- so I call them natal- which is what they would accept. They give so little and we always end up with one side trying to discredit the other. Why can't we just be nice to each other. A bit of respect and dignity is all I ask for.
Dunno what relevance this is, it's just in my head and since converting to FB and social media, think I have every right to share the contents of my mind.
Edited to add: Whilst both sides do try to discredit the other, my experience is that TE people try to discredit me and chip away at my existence, rather than me doing the same to them.
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Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
ok to expand. I am in touch with a large number cis allies (female) who do take TERFs on directly, whereas I feel I can't or don't want to because it draws attention to their claims. I've seen them talked over insulted, accused of being trans, accused of being men, accused of being brainwashed or stupid.
I have heard it commented by some of these women that the only other group who erase them and talk over them, in such an aggressive way are MRAs.
My take is they have merely learned to adopt such behaviour because they see it as effective. Never mind that in the view of a lot of people who are not involved directly this comes across really badly.
Do I see anyone willing to defend trying to deselect a candidate based on her gender and not anything she stood for or said?
Is anyone going to defend tactics such as accusing trans women of being sexual offenders on a public website? Or accusing a trans femme candidate of being a misogynist man in a national publication with no evidence and right to respond?
I have heard it commented by some of these women that the only other group who erase them and talk over them, in such an aggressive way are MRAs.
My take is they have merely learned to adopt such behaviour because they see it as effective. Never mind that in the view of a lot of people who are not involved directly this comes across really badly.
Do I see anyone willing to defend trying to deselect a candidate based on her gender and not anything she stood for or said?
Is anyone going to defend tactics such as accusing trans women of being sexual offenders on a public website? Or accusing a trans femme candidate of being a misogynist man in a national publication with no evidence and right to respond?
actually I was talking about this the other day, trying to figure out what the anger is about re: sex categorisation and these wankers
I just think the anger is basically them having the foundations of their identity ripped away because since being told what they are by mummy and daddy they aint questioned shit all or even thought about anyone else because society backs it up they build themselves from that
so of course people are gonna be angry and defensive because upon being confronted with information they feel lied too and have absolutely no basis anymore for who they are.
I just find it really hard to care about these people cus their IQ is so fucking basic.
they are like 2% of the 7% that call themselves feminists
I just think the anger is basically them having the foundations of their identity ripped away because since being told what they are by mummy and daddy they aint questioned shit all or even thought about anyone else because society backs it up they build themselves from that
so of course people are gonna be angry and defensive because upon being confronted with information they feel lied too and have absolutely no basis anymore for who they are.
I just find it really hard to care about these people cus their IQ is so fucking basic.
they are like 2% of the 7% that call themselves feminists
Jonti
what the dormouse said
Thanks for this. An interesting read.
Jonti
what the dormouse said
The term "trans chauvinist" seems apt .
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Perfect example of what BA was talking about, ID politics consuming everything.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
tbf I quite liked that bit. Given that she's just been beaten up, that seems a pretty good response to me. I like her gumption. I just detest her ideas.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Well, yes.
Jonti
what the dormouse said
You're in the right place if you think you have every right to share the contents of your mind.
Was it relevant? Hell yes.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes. It's a put down.
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